Working in a "home" office

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Started 1 year ago by Betharu
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Betharu
Member

Happy Holidays fellow Unclutterers!

I had posted a question along these lines a couple of months ago but I REALLY need some advice on an issue.

I have my own company - providing accounting and management services to small companies. In most cases, I work in my client's offices.

One of my clients owns a large home in Philadelphia. I go to his "home" office - which is located on the 3rd floor of his home - 1 1/2 days a week. He is a big client - a good part of my income. I have worked with him for over 10 years. The 3rd floor consists of two offices - one for him and one for me, a room that served as a conference room/kitchen, a spare office and a bathroom for the office to use.

He recently went thru a divorce and moved back into his home. Previously, his ex-wife had lived in it.

When he moved back in - he also moved in his girlfriend and a bunch of her friends. Some days the house resembles a fraternity house!

Now - two of the rooms on the 3rd floor that had previously been used as a spare office and conference room are "rented" (I used quotes because I am not sure if they are actually paying money or just crashing for long periods of time).

In addition, the bathroom on the 3rd floor is shared by all of his "renters".

Previously, after he fired his cleaning lady, I would keep the bathroom neat and clean. Since it was only me and him using it, it was no problem.

When he brought in all the "renters", I suggested that he bring back his cleaning lady one day a month to do a thorough cleaning of the bathrooms and kitchen areas. He declined and said that all the "renters" were going to chip in to clean.

Needless to say - this has not happened. The 3rd floor bathroom that I use is approaching filthy and has not been cleaned thoroughly since September (the last time I did it). The toilet bowl is pink, the bathroom sink is BROWN and caked with gobs of toothpaste, the mirror almost white from toothpaste splatters. I am grossed out.

So what do I do? Do I have a right to complain? I have already wiped out the sink once in the past couple of weeks and left the bottle of cleaning spray out so they get the hint! No such luck!

Or, do I just suck it up - buy lots of Antibacterial Hand Sanitizer and Clorox Wipes and close my eyes?

As someone working in a home office - is it reasonable to have an expectation of a clean bathroom to use?

Posted 1 year ago #
Mimi
Member

##Do I have a right to complain?
yes!

## So what do I do?
i don´t know if this works for YOU.. i think I would talk to him and offer to pay 1/2 or 1/3 (a fair part) for a cleaning lady.

if he or his renters is/are not willing to pay the rest, i would pay someone for cleaning the room once a week, in the morning when you work there 1/1 day. the day you work there 1/2 day, just, well... do what you have to do at home and don´t drink too much in your office :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Betharu
Member

Thanks for the input Mimi. However, I know how much his cleaning lady was charging him and it is not unreasonable for him to suck it up and pay for a once a month visit! Or, have his "renters" kick in $10 for cleaning - the cleaning lady was only charging $80 for cleaning the entire house!

Posted 1 year ago #
trillie
Member

Welcome back Betharu, and apart from the current problem, I'm curious: Have you solved the last one (Separating a home office from personal space) yet?

I strongly agree that you do have every right to complain, and I think the bathroom problem ties right in with your last post about your client not separating his work and private life. Sure, an extra bathroom available is handy when there are several people living in one house and the other bathrooms are occupied, but it is still the office bathroom which simply has to live up to certain standards. That doesn't mean that noone but your client and you can use it, but it means that it simply has to be cleaned regularly. I think Mimi's suggestion is great and might work - as long as you only offer a share for cleaning the office (!) area only, including bathroom. Whether your client and his renters decide to pay the cleaning person to clean the rest of the house (their private area) or not, and how much everyone will pay or if that could be part of their rent... that'll be their decision and not yours :o)

Posted 1 year ago #
Mimi
Member

ok, it seems that you don´t want to pay for that. which alternatives do you consider?

Posted 1 year ago #
susanintexas
Member

Of COURSE you should have a clean bathroom. Just because the office is in his home doesn't lower the standards.

I would first reassure him that you value him as a client. Then let him know that the bathroom situation is intolerable. You can present him with several options:
(1) Hire someone to clean the bathroom (although you won't find a cleaning person who will just come for that -- most have a 2 hour minimum.)
(2) Clean it himself
(3) Crack down on the "renters" to clean it (although that does not seem to be working for anyone.)
(4) Clean it yourself -- but charge him double your hourly rate to do so. Explain what that will entail: 1/2 half hour once a week, for example, which will cost him X$. You don't have all this training and experience to be a cleaner, and there should be a penalty, hence the double rate. If you need to bring in supplies, bill him for them.

Posted 1 year ago #
trillie
Member

So, 80$ a month for the entire house that has three floors (as you stated in the other topic), so that's about 25$ for the office area? That is totally doable. What if you offered to chip in 10$?

And oooh susanintexas, #4 is a great idea!

Posted 1 year ago #
Betharu
Member

[1] I know that he will not pay anyone to clean the bathroom, house or any part of it. He is crying poor because his business has been slow and his wife took him to the cleaners. Hence, why he has to rent out rooms.

[2] I don't expect it to be "eat off the floor clean". But, I don't think it is out of line to ask someone to wipe around the toilet, clean the mirror, wipe out the gobs of toothpast in the sink - after they are done with using the facilities. Hey, I use the sink to dump out a coffee cup and I ALWAYS make sure that there are no stains. So I am not asking for alot.

[3] These are "kids" that are living here - age 25 or younger. Don't even get me started on that one! So they really have no sense of common courtesy!

[4] Re - me cleaning it - NO WAY! I had no problem doing it when it was just me and him - or me and the office manager. But I am not going to clean up after strangers. Plus, he laid off his office manager in the Spring and has not replaced her so I am doing her work now too. I don't want to add one more thing to my list of duties!

[5] Trillie - separating the office - hasn't happened yet. My business partner even came in a couple of weeks ago and requested a lock on the office doors. Not done yet. He even said that his side of the office "everyone" uses so he can't lock that. He said he would put a lockable door on my side but I know that is not going to happen because, the other day I caught one of his "friends" in my office, using the copy machine, in her bathrobe. So they have to have access to the printer and fax machine - which is on my side of the office.

I think I am going to address it, in an email, as so:

F ---
I am trying to respectful of the people that are sharing the 3rd floor with the office. I stay in my office as much as possible, keep the music down if I know people are sleeping, etc. And, for the most part, except for the occasional "visit" when Hxxx has used your computer or made copies on the copy machine, your friends have done likewise.

But, you had said in the beginning, when you decided not to bring back the cleaning lady, that your friends were all going to chip in and keep the place clean. I stepped up to the plate, since the beginning of the year, in cleaning the office space and bathroom, on a weekly basis. So I think it is fair that everyone do the same.

That being said - the bathroom is getting REALLY gross. If your renters don't mind - I do! It needs to be addressed with your renters or by hiring someone to clean it ASAP.

What do you all think?

Posted 1 year ago #
Mimi
Member

i think you are really emotionally touched concerning this bathroom. in my opinion you mix up many things in your letter- if it is about the bathroom, there is no place for music, copy machines etc.

but beside this i see a basic problem concerning the bathroom. i can see 2 options for the problem:
(1) clean the bath yourself
(2) let someone else clean it

(...1) you don´t want to clean it
(...2) you don´t want to pay someone to clean it, he will not pay for it, he will not clean it nor the renters, as you can see every day.

is there a way out? i think, you should know what you are expecting, which solution would be possible before writing a letter. and you should now what to do if he will not change anything.

Posted 1 year ago #
lottielot
Member

Honestly, I think the whole situation sounds like a pain and you need to either find a better, more professional client or to work for this client somewhere else. Can you do either of those, maybe work for this client but from your own home or somewhere else? If he's that poor, is his business in danger maybe too? It seems a bit risky to rely for a chunk of your income on someone who seems to be pretty unprofessional in his dealings...

Posted 1 year ago #
Lori Paximadis
Member

Ditto what lottielot said.

The lack of concern about information security, about keeping tenants out of the workspace, and about providing a clean work environment raise even more red flags than his claiming poverty.

NO WAY should you consider cleaning that bathroom, paid or not. You are a professional, and should be treated as such — you should, in fact, insist on being treated as such.

Way, way, way too many red flags here. Start looking for a client to replace this one. Stat.

Posted 1 year ago #
pkilmain
Member

I totally agree with Lottie and Lori! THere is no way you should be expected to clean any part of this office (beyond washing out your coffee cups and tidying your desk). You are being paid to conduct his business, not for cleaning. If you want to keep him as a client, and I assume you do, I'd vote for doing the work at your home, not his. In these days of great and available technologies, he should be able to provide you access to all the information you need. Or perhaps you could go there just the half day, collect what you need, work on it at home and bring it back the next week. In my opinion, he has slipped from running a professional business to something he's trying to keep together without really working at it. I hope this works out for you.

Posted 1 year ago #
tmichelle
Member

Do you have to do your work there? Can you tell him because of the current "conditions" you would like to meet at a coffee shop and do whatever needs to be done there?

Posted 1 year ago #
bandicoot
Member

i hear that he is a big client.
i also hear that things are going weird for him.
i think you need to start looking for other work that doesn't involve him....his gig could fall apart at any moment, it all sounds very unstable.

cleaning the bathroom is NOT part of your job and it shouldn't even be a problem.
it is an indicator of other bigger problems.

Posted 1 year ago #
susanintexas
Member

I think putting your concerns in writing is a good move, but I would make a few suggestions:
(1) Focus SOLELY on the bathroom issue. Here's what's wrong, here's what will make it right, here's what will happen if it's not made right. Everything else is a distraction and could easily lead the conversation off-track.
(2) I wouldn't put any of the proposed solutions (like having the renters chip in) into the letter. It's his job to figure it out, not his.
(3) The big thing that is missing are the consequences of not solving the problem. Your client has already shown that he is more concerned with being part of his newly-found crowd of slacker buddies than he is about his business or your ability to do your job. All of the logical solutions have already been proposed and ignored. So what will happen if you raise the issue and the situation does not improve? You need to spell this out.

I got the impression that this client is a significant part of your business and that working off-site is not a viable option. If this is the case, your only options may be to clean the bathroom yourself or drop him as a client. It sounds like there are a lot of other problems as well, and it might make sense to plan for life without this chunk of business.

Posted 1 year ago #
chacha1
Member

I guess what I didn't understand the first time, and still don't understand, is why the work can't be done from home using GoToMyPC or something similar. I used to manage a law office and 99% of it could have been done from home (the current manager DOES work from home part of the time).

I gather that Betharu is a contractor, not an "employee." As such there may be little recourse in terms of the employer's obligation to provide a clean, secure workspace. The best recourse is a new source of income.

Betharu, I would not recommend sending your email as written. In the past I have tried to "educate" employers - and co-workers! - about what constitutes acceptable professional behavior (or facilities) and it has never turned out well. Plus, it takes the focus off your employer's obligations and turns it onto your dissatisfaction with the idiotic young adults he is allowing to run free in his home.

<Tangent: I have a VERY hard time believing that a heretofore successful businessman is willing to tolerate this unless there is some combination of sex, drugs, and/or alcohol involved. And if indeed there is, it's no wonder his business is falling off.>

The main problem is that the entire situation was always unprofessional and that Betharu has tolerated it and "worked with it" and tried to be a team player. I would recommend that Betharu quietly do the research to determine if the work she does can be done from her own home office. If so, do as much as possible to set it up before presenting a proposal to the client.

Then make the proposal, which should be along the lines of, "I have determined I can better attend to your business from the privacy and security of my own home office. I have made the following arrangements in order to do so. The work I have been retained to do and will continue to do is the following." You have to spell out what your duties are. Unless you got a raise when you took on the office manager's work, you shouldn't include that in what you are willing to do on a continuing basis. And you CERTAINLY shouldn't include any housekeeping!

But before doing any of that, take a long hard look at the income from this client, at his industry's general health, at the health of his immediate competitors, and at economic forecasts for your area ... and then go find a couple new clients - for whom you can work either in proper, professional, separate offices that they provide, or from your home.

There aren't actually that many people who are qualified to do the sort of work you're doing and who can provide such a long client history to back it up. Don't settle for being this guy's house mother.

Posted 1 year ago #
fields_of_green
Member

Posted 1 year ago #
fields_of_green
Member

It sounds like you have been suffering for a long time, and you are losing more respect for the customer with each passing day. I've also been in a situation where I was devoting an inordinate amount my time and mental energy trying to accommodate a troublesome customer. When I finally realized how much time I was having to spend on the one customer compared to all my other customers, I finally decided that it had to end.

I don't think that lengthy explanations are necessary. When your reasons for wanting to end a business relationship are not necessarily business related, but due to issues of character, I believe it's better to not put those reasons in writing. I believe it's better to simply state that you will be unable to service a person after a certain date, and leave it at that.

The issue of the lack of security is maybe a valid reason to state, if you feel that it's necessary, but I don't think that it is. Your posts suggest that you have already brought that subject up, and that the advice was ignored, so why mention it again? And referring to the messy bathroom, or to the questionable housemates and their lack of a desire to clean, or referring to your client's possibly unfounded trust in said housemates... unfortunately, it does not make for a great business letter. And more importantly, I suspect it would not make a change in your customer's behavior. As others have posted, you are not this client's housecleaner. It's so obvious that it goes without saying. I suspect that your client is not being malicious; he simply doesn't find what you find to be important, to be important. That may change when he finds his bearings, but you do not have to wait for that to happen. That is his journey to make, not yours.

I get the impression that your main problem with the client is that your gut feeling is telling you that you no longer want to take care of this customer anymore. It may be time to decide whether to unclutter. If so, better to make it quick and clean.

If you do unclutter the client, you may miss the income, but on the other hand, you would be able to devote more time to the customers who are more deserving of your time. And I think that it will improve your business to spend more time and mental energy on the customers that you like to work with and who respects you, than to have all your thoughts consumed by the customer that you do not like to work with. People talk about the 80/20 rule. 20 percent is necessary and 80 percent is not so necessary. The 80/20 rule also goes the other way too. It's a small percentage of people that cause most of the trouble. It won't be the end of the world to consider letting go of such people.

Posted 1 year ago #
Betharu
Member

Thanks for all of the suggestions - I very much appreciate them.

Just to put this in perspective, this client accounts for about $40K of my annual income - a hefty sum. And, there is a loyalty factor involved - 10 years is a long time to work with someone. I genuinely like the guy - he is just in a screwed up mental state right now.

I addressed this with my business partner last night and she TOTALLY agreed that I should talk to him about the situation - both the unsecure office and the unsanitary conditions.

Rather than an email, I will speak to him directly on Monday. It will probably be somethig to the effect of - "Hey, the bathroom is getting gross! I think you need to consider hiring the cleaning lady back. Based on what you are collecting in rent, you can afford a once a month visit. What do you think?"

If he says "NO", I will simply reiterate that it hasn't been cleaned since I did it and he needs to make alternate arrangements.

Posted 1 year ago #
chacha1
Member

Whoa, okay. You said before that the 1.5 days you devote to this client (in actual time on-site) represents "a good part" of your total income. That's about 30% of your work week. And you just shared the round figure of $40K which helps us start building perspective.

What *percentage* of your total income is that? Is it 30%, more, or less? If it's less, *I* would be firing that client, that's all. If it's more, you need to raise your rates with your other clients!

I do understand that you don't, actually, want to kick this client to the curb. You just want to make the situation work. But YOU CAN'T. He is the one who has to make it work and he has established that he just doesn't care.

I would encourage you to yes, speak with him again, but also use fields_of_green's advice re 80/20 rule. Is the percentage of income this client represents equivalent to the amount of time/trouble/worry he takes? And don't forget your professional exposure. What happens if one of those "kids" decides to start using the company credit card?

If at the base of it all you really want to continue working with him, then PLEASE seriously consider setting things up to work from home, with a detailed contract laying out your responsibilities and obligations as well as the LIMITS of your duties. You have to CYA.

Posted 1 year ago #

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