Hi All,
I'm wondering if anyone has come across any research using sociological, cultural, or biological terms to explain why it's so hard to get rid of stuff?
Thanks!
Chris
Overall Rating: 1 vote
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Posted 4 months ago #
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I read Stuff, and a lot of it came down to plain ability. Getting rid of things is actually kind of complex: you have to make decisions, and remember them, and follow through on them. It doesn't take much of a barrier to cause that not to happen. Like, where I live, regular recycling and waste are really easy to get rid of curbside, and you pay for trash service whether you use it or not. But e-waste and construction debris are hard to get rid of - you have to haul it yourself, and it either costs money or effort (drive out to another city for e-waste, or get a one-day dump permit for construction debris). So everyone I know, when they move house they suddenly get motivated to get rid of years' worth of those things.
For some people, it's even harder, either because of emotional links or problems with making decisions (one of the things that comes up a lot is an inability to group things, so instead of a decision about "all these old papers" they have to make a decision about each one individually.) Here's the Amazon listing/reviews for Stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/Stuff-Compulsive-Hoarding-Meaning-Things/dp/015101423XPosted 4 months ago # -
There might also be some sort of biological or evolutionary factor... the whole hunting and gathering thing... storing up for winter/hard times ahead...our bodies are still hardwired in many ways for an ancient lifestyle, which we forget in this modern age of technology and processed foods and the ability (in most cases) to get more stuff easily should we need it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Oh, I was just commenting on a tangent on this subject in ATAD. Will read with interest what you guys come up with.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I don't have research terminology behind me, but from a layman's perspective it seems like part of the hardship is the dealing with loss.
The first reaction before one has gotten used to the idea of decluttering is in many cases to ignore, avoid, step backwards, remove the challenge. Once the brain has had enough time to explain to the "heart" why change is necessary", the heart joins the brain but always a step behind, never as quick as the brain. At some point the heart realises it won't be deprived of anything, there is no loss, but something else as replacement, something better.
Since the brain is always a step ahead of the heart, the habit changes come slowly. One might apply Newton's laws onto psychology and win a Nobel prize for it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Also I wouldn't underestimate the power of Media and not just advertisement but also things like Oprah (must confess I never watch it, but I hear of the things she *likes* that you can buy to be *happy*) or even blogs (I read a lot of interior blogs) with their endless pictures and lists of pretty things that all imply "If only you had this, that or the other you would be happier".
Even as someone who is conscious of possible clutter building up I am not immune to these things. And there is often a kind of thrill when you find the *perfect* thing and buy it.
This of course happens BEFORE you have to get rid of things but I think it must play a big part in why people are then so reluctant to get rid of those things that were suppose to make them happy (and that they paid, possibly a lot, of money for).
For me getting rid of things is only one side of the coin that is uncluttering, the other is being vigilant about what you buy/let into your home in the first place.Posted 4 months ago # -
Here is a sociology book which looks relevant: http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=X_ndMJInLZkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA230&dq=clutter+sociology&ots=w9W6r6QxOM&sig=jCqYNJSlJSeizNJbwjvroKwp8j8
In my psychology degree we had a chapter on children as consumers which was interesting. There is an excellent podcast called iProcrastinate which discusses research into all aspects of procrastination. For me, it's very much what Rosa said, all those little steps and lots of decisions to make which makes it hard for me, so then I procrastinate if something is difficult. Another great podcast is Thinking Allowed, which discusses lots of different sociology topics, including our relationship to stuff.
It really depends on the individual as to why they may find it hard, some may have emotional attachments to stuff, some may focus on the wasted money aspect. There must be research into the identity aspects of stuff too. People buy things sometimes in order to establish an identity for themselves or to ally themselves with a particular social group, and getting rid of that stuff implies a change in identity (think how hard it is for people to get rid of clothes which have become too small, it's like you're having to say goodbye to your perceived size 10 self and adjust to your new larger body and the identity of a size 12 person). And then there are the social aspects of stuff too: lots of threads here about things people have been given and all the ramifications of getting rid of those items. Extremely complex and very interesting.
By the way, Google Scholar is an excellent resource for finding research, whether in books or journals.Posted 4 months ago # -
I will say (has anybody read Rubbish! about the garbage ecology program at the University of Arizona?) that in the past, people were not any better at getting rid of stuff than we are today. It's just that their stuff was made of more natural materials, so it either composted (food, cloth) or stayed pretty inert in the soil (bones, ceramic, stone)
Most people in prehistory and history just dropped what they were done with on the ground, wherever they were. And then they either moved to a new place, or stomped the trash heap down and used it as the new floor. That's why there are so many traces of their stuff available to archeologists.
The difference now is that we have either made our surfaces or our stuff nonbiodegradeable - you can drop a lot of food waste on concrete for years and what you'll get is a layer of dirt on top of concrete, not a slightly higher ground level. And of course plastic never goes away. So we've made getting rid of stuff a lot harder than it used to be.
Posted 4 months ago # -
And we probably have a lot more stuff too! Well, maybe not so much the rich people, they probably had plenty. But on average...
Posted 4 months ago # -
I don't know, Lottie, the Garbage Project stuff is about 30 years old now, but they found that the rate of rubbish discard (measured in square inches per year per person) was about the same over time. I found that really shocking.
Of course, most of the waste ancient people had (like wheat stalks, edges of skins & cloth that didn't make it into clothing, stalks & bones & other inedible parts of food) are manufacturing waste now, instead of personal waste. I know when I'm cooking from scratch I generate a lot more waste (stems, peels, bones, burnt bits) than when I use prepared foods, but it's all compost instead of all plastic/metal/paper.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm just thinking of non-food items, I can see that killing a deer will lead to a lot of rubbish like bones, entrails etc, but what about the inordinate amount of toys most kids have now? Not to mention stuff like electrical waste. Reading the Little House on the Prairie books to ds2 was very interesting, the family went from make do and mend with everything fitting in their wagon to acquiring ploughs, lots more furniture, even that luxury of windows! They may not have thrown out more rubbish, but they certainly acquired a lot more as they became better off and industrialisation made its mark on their lives.
Posted 4 months ago # -
i read ...somewhere on the internet, to be precise :-)... that people feel pain when they have to part from stuff. it was a scientific study and they analysed the brain while people were told to give away stuff.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Well, as some might know from previous posts of mine, i have an extremely difficult time trashing things that are perfectly OK. It is a lot less difficult if i know someone else will appreciate it. Donating it to persons unknown is getting a lot more comfortable the more i do it.
Getting used to the concept of sunk money is slowly "taking".Posted 4 months ago # -
It's my purely unscientific assessment that humans are simply hard-wired to keep stuff. Throughout history (which I do know a bit about, certainly more than I know about brain science) basically the only people who have voluntarily lived minimally were 1) nomads; 2) religious aescetics.
Before money, there was Stuff. Stuff was currency. Stuff was, literally, wealth. We are now (most of the world) getting to a stage of development where wealth = what one knows (because that's how we generate income), but when your entire life was conducted within a square mile and in the company of the same community of <1000 people, wealth = what one possessed.
Just think of the dowry system! Still going strong in cultures as advanced as India's. The bride is worth nothing unless she comes with a bed, a TV, a set of gold jewelry, and a cow.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Mimi - you're right, and that's the same reason that small children experience anxiety over potty training #2 - the poop is THIERS, dammit! And it's going down the draiiiinnn!!!!!!!!! (true!)
I know for some generations it was the "I'll never go hungry again" syndrome - my grandparents lived through the dustbowl, and from the time I was tiny my grandmother would have two fridges and freezers full of food and had such a hard time throwing stuff away. She and grandpa were crack hands at fixing things up and selling them, though, and I give them props for clearing out 2X a year with a huge yard sale at which they always cleared a few grand. And the food was always being used for good things - my gran cooks, OMG she can cook (she taught me) and would always be taking food to church functions, social gatherings, shut-ins, etc.
For children growing up in horrific abuse, like I and my sibs did, it's not uncommon to clutch hard to things, from hoarding food to hunching over one's plate at the table (which was the devil of a habit to break) to being unable to let go of stuff (because it's all you have and you may never get anything else and someone could take it from you tomorrow.)
Anyway. sorry to ramble, but there's just so many reasons people may cling to things.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think there's also a genetic aspect to this as well. I have several major hoarders on my father's side and a few on my mom's side, so I monitor my stuff all the time.
Posted 4 months ago # -
@Conny re: "Getting used to the concept of sunk money is slowly "taking""
I am starting to catch on to this too, it's taking a while!
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think this is maybe a bit too much of an open question. In my experience (meaning both what I've observed with myself and what I've observed directly with others) it all seems to depend a lot on the six Ws:
- What is being rid of (utilitarian items, sentimental items, items that are both! all these distinctions come into play in different ways)
- When (timing is a big deal!! Something may matter lots at one time, so be hard to let go of, then maybe just a few months later it is no longer needed and can be let go of without difficulty) Prime example: class notes! Most can be safely booted after finals, but before that they are vital. But there are other, more subtle (and therefore complicated) examples :-)
- Where (witness the discussions here about how it can be easier to get rid of some things if they are going to someone who will definitely appreciate them)
- Why the decluttering is proposed
- and closely related: Who is doing the deciding: is it circumstances or people beyond the owner's control (eg as with a forced downsizing for financial reasons, or in an oft-overlooked example, a child being forced to declutter possessions by a parent?) Is it the owner, but forced into it by societal directives? Is it completely self-motivated on the owner's part?
- and hoW - is it done in a context of time-pressure or with leisure? Is it done even in a clean, bright room, or a dusty, stuffy basement? all these things make it easier or harder to get rid of some things, some of the time, for some people, at some times...you know?In short, it depends. The statement, 'it is hard to get rid of stuff' can be completely true in some circumstances, completely UNtrue in others, and mostly somewhere in between, so that it would be more accurate to say, 'Some of the time, it can be hard for some people to get rid of some things'. Which leads to a research question that is less 'why is it hard to get rid of things' and more 'in which circumstances (including timing) is it hard (and how hard) to get rid of which things, and for which types of people?'
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think that part of the problem is genetic, combined with life circumstances.
The other part of it is, as Nina mentioned, the media. How often do we run across images with beautiful women surrounded by loads of really awesome stuff smiling? Or walking out of a store with loads of bags in hand and a grin on her face? We are constantly reminded that to be a smart and desirable woman (not sure why we never put men in these sorts of ads) that you must have lots of really great stuff. Who cares if you can't afford it? You're not going in to debt, you're being cute and playful! And as a mom, it is your duty to constantly be looking for a deal, so you and your family can have more stuff. I think of those Target ads for black friday where the woman is preparing for the 4am sale- she is practicng her menacing one liners to anyone else who may try to buy what she wants, she exercising so she get through the store faster, etc. Apparently she is a likable character?
Anyway, it's not as if we are holding on to things due to scarcity, it's just that we are told many times per day that over abundance is good.
Posted 4 months ago # -
My grandparents grew up during the Depression. They learned that things that could be used again didn't get thrown away - ever. When they died in 2001 and 2002, my dad and uncle were in the attic going through boxes. They found boxes and boxes of used, cleaned, flattened pieces of foil and ziploc bags. I don't know how old the boxes were, but they kept them to be used again. They had that mentality of not wasting anything from when they were growing up. My dad and uncle quickly threw them away!
Posted 3 months ago #
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