Following on from lazycow's comment in the ATAD thread...OK, let's share our ideas here :)
My kids are 5 and 8, and I'm trying very hard to instil good habits into them, and I figure they're old enough to be doing their bit. My 5 year old did a great job recently when he moved into his own bedroom, I was astonished what he was capable of, and without being asked he filled a box with some old toys he didn't want and asked me to give them away! However, his room is getting to be rather untidy so I need to go through and sort out his storage with him, it's mainly arts and crafts stuff which doesn't have an official home so ends up left lying around. However, of my children he's probably naturally the least cluttered and most likely to use any systems we set up.
My 8 year old though... He never puts his books away and leaves them lying round the house (even though I cleared loads of space on the shelves so there's no excuse to just stick them back in). He never bothers putting his dirty socks in his washing bag, and most clothes lie where they drop, dirty or clean (then even the clean ones end up dirty). He will do stuff if nagged for long enough, or bribed with a DVD or something, but it would be nice if he didn't have to be nagged! Any ideas? His bedroom is probably the worst room in the house, it drives me crazy that he never does anything except make a mess in there and refuse to clean it up. So we end up with mouldy food, lots of empty water glasses, clothes everywhere, and he just doesn't notice or care. He does do other chores like empty the dishwasher, I get him to put out the washing or bring it in sometimes, sometimes he'll complain no end and need constant reminders, sometimes he'll get on and do it. But his room, he refuses point blank to do anything. My friend and I spent an afternoon cleaning it up, I tidied all the bookshelves (he has a lot of books) and I organised it all for him so he had space to put stuff and was able to put things away and it looked lovely. And now a month later, eurgh! It's also unfair because it's a big room, much bigger than his brother's (who has a lot more toys because he's younger). I definitely don't expect perfection, but I need to hoover in there occasionally and right now I can't get in the door! He's not massively attached to things, even though like most kids he has far too much stuff. We did discuss redecorating his room a while ago, he spent ages picking out paint colours etc, but I pointed out that I couldn't paint the walls if the room was in a state, not sure that got through to him. Also, I want it to be his room, and his responsibility, I don't want to get too involved with it, other than to help when needed. I figure the start of the new school year here is a good opportunity to tackle how we do things as a family and get some good habits started, so any ideas would be welcome!
On the plus side (not exactly uncluttering, but a timesaver so it unclutters my time and my temper), I worked out a way of helping my ds1 remember which shoe to put on which foot. He has real problems with this, and the number of hours of my life I have spent taking his shoes off and putting them on the right way round is ludicrous. So on the weekend I drew some big toes on each shoe in permanent marker and wrote 'BIG TOE THIS WAY'! It only works for light coloured shoes so I'm going to try to work out another system for dark shoes, but I was pleased with my ingenuity! The idea came from that Alfie book where he puts his boots on the wrong way and his mum paints L and R on his boots for left and right, but my ds1 has no idea which was is left and right, but he can work out where his big toe is!
OK, anyone else got any good ideas for uncluttering kids they'd care to share? I need ideas for organising school uniforms and shoes, particularly shoes, they drive me crazy the way they get lost! We have a very small hallway so there is no natural home for shoes by the door. We also seem to have wellies, trainers, school shoes, casual shoes etc, trying to keep them organised is a bit of a nightmare for me, particularly when they get grown out of so quickly. Both boys also need different shoes for PE at school, and then they do sport after school so need trainers for that. They need to be easy to access, easy to find and easy to put back where they belong, all with very limited storage space (like behind a door). Any solutions welcome :)
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Posted 1 year ago #
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ooh, I just found this:
http://www.labels4kids.com/product.php/43/2/
The perfect solution for his school shoes! Mind you, my idea was better because it's free and it's funny :)Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi lottielot. I've just finished reading a fabulous book called "Simplicity Parenting" by Kim John Payne (http://www.simplicityparenting.com/). Now, I've read all the books on uncluttering, parenting, living a simple life, living a frugal life, etc and thought I knew it all. However, this book gave me some great new ideas on how to approach things with the children. Like your son, my 10 yo daughter has hundreds of books in her room, and always goes to bed with at least 6 or 7 ON her bed (she does read them all at once, apparently). Taking advice from SP, I've taken half the books in her room and moved them out of sight so there isn't so much visual or actual clutter. She's much happier, and there is room for all her favourite books on her shelves, and has been keeping her room much tidier. It's spring holidays in a couple of weeks, so I'll pull out some of the books and rotate them (so far, she hasn't missed ANY of them). She really doesn't care about her stuff either, so I've been tossing heaps of stuff (nothing important like her stuffed animals) when she's not home! We use the 'one thing in, one thing out' rule too.
Can't help with the shoe situation. My son only owns 2 pairs, and they are both sneakers (they don't have to wear school shoes at his school).
Posted 1 year ago # -
thanks for the recommendation lazycow, I just had a look at the Amazon preview and it looks really good, I may clutter the house with another book! I really resonate with his idea of 'soul fever', it describes my son's behaviour to a T these last few weeks. Interestingly, my solution to his behaviour was to ban him from screen time (nintendo and computer mainly but also junk telly) and he responded really well to it. In fact, he hasn't missed it at all! We have been watching lots of DVDs together though, so maybe I took the right approach. I also chucked lots of his stuff out too and he didn't notice and won't care. It makes my dh cross that the kids won't look after their stuff, but I think it's mostly that they have so much they don't treasure what they do have, plus people are forever buying them new stuff, it's not things they've saved up for or look forward to.
I'm not sure on the books, where do you put those 'out of sight' books? Maybe I could put them in boxes under the bed and tell him where they are. He does have a tendency to re-read books a lot anyway, I always joke that he gets good value out of the books I buy him! However, I'm always really pleased to see that he has picked up a new book that I've bought him and left on his bookshelf in case he might like it. Also, as a kid I used books to help me understand the world and navigate life's difficulties, I hope that he can do that too, and sometimes you need just the 'right' book for that. Like the other day, he was upset about something and couldn't sleep, so I prescribed him Pippi Longstocking, worked a treat! You can't be anxious when you read Pippi Longstocking :) But I'll think about it...Actually, one reason why his books aren't that organised is because one bookshelf is actually a wide shelving units with no back and no proper sides, I put the books into boxes to stop them from falling off and to keep them organised. But if I used some of those shallow Ikea boxes maybe I could organise the books into there and put lids on, that way he could find something he wanted but not have that visual clutter you mentioned. Hmmm, I'll do some measuring and see if it might work.Posted 1 year ago # -
As far as the plates/glasses problem, instil a 'no food anywhere except at the table' rule. Tell him it's a health and safety issue as you can't trust him to return the things to the kitchen the very next time he leaves his room. To make it fair, you all need to follow the same rule.
(But that means you have to keep the table or wherever you decide is the eating site clear. I know our table is one of what fly lady calls 'hot spots'. I do give is a complete clear every week or ten days, but it's so easy to put things down on it and there's only us two supposed adults here.)
I think at 8 (although it will be a pain for you and will be using valuable study time) you could start using some of the confiscation techniques from the other post. I suggest that you re-tidy his room, which won't take anywhere near as long as last time, remove a whole load more stuff (see below for what to do with it) and explain the rules to him that you will be going in there regularly (probably daily to start with so you don't have a backlog to deal with) and *removing* anything he hasn't put away.
Now it's up to you what you do with what you remove <smile> Some you may decide to get rid of, other things (more valuable, more precious to him?) you can just put away out of sight until the message sinks in. Don't tell him what you have kept and what has gone. He has seen how much change you have made already and will probably assume it has all gone. When he has kept the room tidy for a while you can return things one at a time.
As far as clothes are concerned, if he has favourite T-shirts or whatever, and leaves them on the floor, you could disappear them for a while after washing, until his wardrobe is looking a bit bare of what he considers OK clothes, (if he complains just "Oh dear, perhaps you left it on the floor") and occasionally replace one or two and deny all knowledge of it - "Well I never, they must have been there all the time". Obviously school clothes etc, you will just have to bite the bullet and pick them up, wash them and replace them.
If he has his door shut while he's in there, try a sign above the door handle with something like "Are you SURE you want to leave those things on the floor???" that he will see as he leaves. Have more than one sign and change them at intervals so he goes on 'seeing' them. And/or try and make a quick tidy up part of his bedtime routine - that would help a lot with the dirty clothes issue.
If he really hates helping you, you could try explaining that for the time being the only chores you expect him to do (just during the week, perhaps?) will be to help clear the table at the end of snacks and meals and to keep his room tidy. But if he is unable to do that he will have to go back to doing out-of-his-room chores to free you the time to do his room. You will have to work out if the amount of time he saves you helping unwillingly is worth the hassle of having the mess in his room. If you want him to do a few things for you at the weekend, for the time being try to give him those chores you think he tolerates best.
BUT, what ever rules you make, think them through carefully, explain them to both boys (you will need to apply most of it to both of them for fairness, with only a small concession for age, but #2 son sounds as if he is already most of the way there,) and then do not budge one inch. Just set the rules and if he doesn't follow them for you, let him find out the consequences.
It will almost certainly be the quickest thing for you timewise, and the least stressful, if you go in there frequently, and will eventually get the message across to him without you needing to act the heavy parent. If he complains, just shrug and say "You know the system". No more nagging, certainly no more bribery, let him work out for himself what he himself is making happen when he does or doesn't do certain things, so although you may still be doing (some of) the tidying he has the responsibility for the results as they affect him.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Most of the shoes my kids have also have some kind of picture or cartoon on them, and "the picture goes on the outside". That helps. However, the toe idea is brilliant. If I were doing that, I would just get a silver Sharpie marker for the dark ones. That would show up easily.
Your 8 year old sounds like ME (only 30 years younger, ha ha). I am messy and always have been. I really don't think I see the mess as much as other people do. And when I do see it, it's not that I don't care, but I don't care enough to take care of it NOW. Or I care, but cleaning is so overwhelming. Thinking back to when I was a kid, my room was always a disater. Every once in a while I would get it totally cleaned up, but rarely. But it always took forever, so even now, I don't clean regularly because to me, cleaning = HOURS AND HOURS (or maybe DAYS) of work. So it could be possible that it's not as much that your son doesn't care, but that he doesn't get HOW to clean or what a difference a little bit here and there makes. Honestly, I have that thought process that says, "it will take less effort to pick up all my dirty laundry at once than to put each piece into the laundry hamper one at a time" -- and I think that about everything. I also never had enough space for all my stuff (or rather I had too much stuff). And since I'm still messy, I'm not sure what to suggest. Maybe include a 5 minutes tidy every night? Just so he sees what a difference it makes. Or maybe give really specific instructions of what to do - pick up laundry -- then books away, etc etc until he learns to break down the cleaning job? You probably already do that. I wish someone had taught me how to clean when I was little. All I had was every once in a while someone would come in my room and tell me how messy it was. I suppose they thought it would be motivating to embarrass me? All it accomplished was that I rarely went to visit my cousins when they invited me for sleepovers because I CONSTANTLY thought, "I have to clean my room", but since I didn't know how, it never got cleaned.
Posted 1 year ago # -
What worked for us is to strip the child's room back to basics. Remove everything but essentials (for us it was bed, dresser, desk, clothes, and about five toys and twenty books).
Each night before bed, everything was returned to its place: dirty clothes in the hamper, clean clothes folded and away, toys nicely arranged.
The surplus toys were put in the garage and used like a toy lending library. The five toys could be swapped for others from storage (under supervision).
It can take weeks for the new, orderly behaviour to become a (good) habit. In our case, our youngest seemed quite relieved to have less stuff to deal with.
Also, I have to walk the walk and be very orderly myself, keeping specific activities in their assigned areas. Food is eaten at the table. Period. Art is made at the art table. Period.
The more organized I am, the more it influences the kids.
I highly recommend removing as much STUFF as possible to start (from kids rooms and everywhere else for that matter), and focusing on a few key activities that you enjoy doing for a while. If that is manageable and there's time for more activities, then allow one more back in, under careful management. In our case, simplicity is more realistic.
I know I sound like a stick in the mud but I promise you I'm fun, and the kids seem to thrive in order rather than chaos. Less is truly more.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh, I like emjayjay's idea -- establish the HABIT, TEACH the skills. Someone needs to do that for me.
Posted 1 year ago # -
We have a going-to-bed checklist, to make the next morning easier (my son is 5 and just started kindergarten, a full hour and a half earlier than we had him at daycare just two weeks ago).
We also keep the big toys - lincoln logs, blocks, matchbox tracks, marble machines, kitchen, play tools, indoor tent - in boxes in the attic. Every week or so he can switch out which toy he has in his room.
The giant tub of legos is a constant, though; so in his room there's legos, paper, crayons, books, clothes, his guinea pigs & their supplies, and his bed - that is a pretty full room just as-is.
The other thing is that he sees me uncluttering all the time, so every few months when I say "OK, time to go through your toy box," he is really good about it. I think because he knows I'll never make him get rid of anything he really values, it's easy for him to let go of stuff. (Plus, every time we go through the toy box we find a bunch of little toys he has been missing - last week we found six bouncy balls that he thought had disappeared.)
Posted 1 year ago # -
lots of good suggestions, thanks! I have actually uncluttered the room a lot, and he doesn't really play with toys so much so they're not a huge problem. I could do with doing some more though. Confiscating won't work, he doesn't have things he's attached to that much that he would care. Ditto clothes, if I took all his clothes out he'd probably just go naked! I think the little and often will work OK though, probably straight after school or something. He's pretty good if I ask him to do one small thing, so that would be better. Margaret: I know just what you mean about never learning how to keep a room tidy, my mum would come and do everything for me, hence I'm keen that he learn. At least he does do other stuff round the house though!
emjayjay, you are so right about walking the walk! They have certainly been more receptive to being asked to put things away when they see me do the same. I need to tidy up the lounge right now though, all my study stuff is strewn everywhere and it doesn't set a good example AT ALL! I have been keeping the kitchen, bathroom and landing pristine, and that is a bit of a first for me for more than a few days, so I'm hoping once I have those good habits established in those rooms it'll rub off elsewhere in the house... I suppose we're all learning together.
I do have a funny story though, last night I got out some art stuff thinking we could do some stuff together while I cooked dinner. That didn't work as ds2 wanted to cook his own dinner while I helped and ds1 read his book. Then I suggested we do it afterwards, but one tiny thing I said about an 8 year old inventor being interviewed on the radio sparked their interest in inventing. So they rushed off upstairs 'to the lab' and proceeded to dismantle the table in ds2's room (something to do with 'dangerous experiments') and when I asked them why ds1 said 'it's cluttering up the room so we're going to freecycle it'! Anyway, they half dismantled it so it's wobbly, I don't know how the bolts go back in, god knows if a freecycler would even want it... Then ds1 dismantled his brother's new bin and I had to spend half an hour fixing it, the contents of the toolbox were strewn over the middle floor of the house in an effort to find stuff to make a 'cool machine'. Ye gods. Needless to say, a big mess and no invention resulted :)Posted 1 year ago # -
I also love emjayjays suggestion about implementing the habit. I also think that if you have been the one cleaning your son's room all the time, he has no real sense of knowing what goes where -- maybe he really needs to be taught step-by-step "Is there something on the floor?" - "Is it a book?" - "Where do books go?" and so on.
One thing I remember from reading the FLYlady emails was that one woman had implemented a new system for allowance/spending money for her kids. They each got a basic amount of weekly allowance (depending on age) and could upgrade that amount if they did certain chores around the house. The chores were also 'worth' different amounts, e.g. emptying dishwasher .25 $ and mowing the lawn 5.00 $. (Or whatever -- I don't have children, I don't know what's appropriate there.) You could assign an amount of allowance to the daily picking up before bed, too, so maybe that would be an incentive for your son to do things.
Posted 1 year ago # -
trillie, are you saying my ds1 is too stupid to know a book goes on a bookshelf?! (only joshing :)) You're right though, kids do need taking by the hand and breaking it into chunks sometimes. I do too actually, hence ATAD works for me!
The allowance thing wouldn't work, he gets given money by other people for birthdays etc, so pocket money isn't really that big a deal to him, though maybe in a few years he might respond to that. Anyway, I'd rather he does chores to be part of the family rather than for money TBH.
Lots of good ideas everyone though, as always :)Posted 1 year ago # -
Trillie's right, my daughter is a very smart girl but too stupid (or downright lazy) to put her books on her bookshelf PROPERLY. She just throws them willy-nilly!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I taught eight olds most of my adult life and I love them. Third grade is my favorite. Your little guy just needs to know you mean business. You are the boss.
"Who's the boos?"
"You are Mommy".
It could be an inside joke.
And you just stand there until he does whatever he is supposed to do. Be consistent, predictable.
I use to stand right next to a kids desk and tap on the desk with a ruler, joking around. I'd tap on the desk "Get back to work", they'd giggle and get back to work. They forget! LOL. After a while, I'd just have to shoot them a look. It is kind of fun. They thought I was the funniest teacher. Basically I never grew up.
Humor works wonders, especially when you are exasperated.
If you do that now, and it may be a bit of a battle, you will save yourself a lot of aggravation in the long run. Once he gets the hang of it, you can kick back.
In fact, he can be trained to help you. 8 year olds make terrific helpers. They love to help. Find something he likes to help out with, that will make him feel important.
Kids that age want to know what the rules are. They want some guidelines. Sit down and explain why. Make sure he is listening. Let him in on the decision making. He'll fall in line.
Kids are not by nature neat but they certainly can be trained to pick up.
I could write a book about it! I have that many ideas.
Oh Lee Canter (Cantor) has a terrific book about assertive discipline for parents. It is several years old and assertive discipline does not demean a parent, (or a teacher) or a child.
As Astro Jetson says"Rots of ruck!"
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who's the Boos! LOL. I can't type! I never learned as you cannot sleep in a typing class. ;o)
Posted 1 year ago # -
terriok, you sound like you should write a book :) My 8 year old is 8 going on 2 going on 48 though, he's a bag of complexity and although I am definitely the boss, sometimes that doesn't help! Also, you should know that your beautifully-behaved 8 year old school pupils are just plain fed up of being beautifully-behaved after 6 hours of school, and are in the mood for some challenging behaviour sometimes at home :) However, he has been lovely the past week or so, so I won't diss him too much. I've started saying 'I will do x for you if you do y', like if he goes and gets changed and puts his school uniform away I'll make him a snack. Hopefully once he's used to that he can do his own snack! You're right though that he will respond if things are explained to him. Most of the time... Doesn't mean he doesn't need nagging though!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I feel for you, because I have similar problems with my 10-year-old. She's a smart girl, but ask her to clean her room and she looks around helplessly, because she has trouble seeing both the problem and the solution. Of course she doesn't say, "please help me, Mom!" instead she ignores the room and slips into another activity when I'm not looking.
I know I need to consistently and gently train her in how to pick up her room on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I tend to get impatient and frustrated, and I give up or just do things myself. My mother just yelled and threatened and left me to it, and that certainly didn't help me learn good habits. I'm trying to do better with my kids, but I'm still working on myself!
I also have a younger child whose brain is wired differently. His room has few things in it, it is usually neat, and he loves to donate his old things. Go figure.Posted 1 year ago # -
re: books not standing up on a shelf:
I just picked up some Ikea bookends which work a treat. Our bookcases are full as all of our work papers and projects have to live there too. But I cannot stand it when books are falling over and looking untidy. The Ikea ones clip over shelves and are nearly invisible. Several of those separating areas on a bookshelf can be helpful too.
I also found at a local store (Trillie will know Tchibo!) two tall racks which hold on the same way to the top shelf of a bookshelf, thereby extending it by one shelf. If I can figure out how to post a pic I will.
Posted 1 year ago # -
i keep looking at this topic title and thinking, man how difficult is it to unclutter kids?
do you throw them in the recycler? put them on craigslist? take them to the op shop? garage sale?Posted 1 year ago # -
bandicoot: there was a bit of a hoo-hah a while ago when some put their kid on ebay :) They were joking, obviously, but caused no end of a fuss!
Still working on ds1, the bedroom is still a state but better, and he has been ever so good at doing the other chores the last few days. I will train him slowly but surely...it definitely requires a strong will and a bit of creativity though. Plus remembering to barter with him, that probably works the best by giving him an incentive to do stuff!Posted 1 year ago #
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