I'm finding that sometimes these two goals, which so often overlap each other, are clashing on more occasions than I anticipated. Anyone else?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Can you give us a few examples you've run into? I've seen more occasions where trying to be uncluttered has encouraged a frugal lifestyle. I tend to use the library more instead of buying books. I don't buy anything decorative anymore unless I have s specific spot in mind for it. I suppose clothes shopping might not always seem more frugal with an uncluttered approach - since I've realized the wisdom of buying a better, long-lasting brand than the cheapest one available. But since I've thought through my purchase more carefully in the first place, and pared my wardrobe down to classic pieces, the more expensive items last much longer.
Maybe it depends on what stage of the process you are in. It can seem anti-frugal if you are getting rid of things you wasted too much money on. Plus, if you are just starting on de-cluttering and organizing, the storage units and organizers can be pricey!Posted 1 year ago # -
What seems to be missing, when we buy or store things "just in case", and refuse to let go of them, is a realistic accounting of just what the purchase and the storage cost us, in the long run. The money we spent could have been saved and generated interest; space used for storage costs us, prevents other uses, and requires maintenance if it isn't to become a health hazard.
Also missing is a realistic understanding of whether or not we will EVER be able to use the stockpiled items. Being able to think of a convoluted scenario ("I should cut up these old shoes and save the leather because sometime in the future I might think of some project that would require a piece of leather"--which is something that my ex actually DID) is not the same thing as confidently being able to predict that we will need the down jacket next winter. When it comes to crafts and projects, we don't realistically assess just how much time and energy we have. That leads to the stack of un-quilted quilt tops I have stored in one of my drawers, or the plastic bin full of ribbons.
I'm guilty of all of this (storing stuff without counting the costs, over-estimating my time and energy) -- just not to such a degree that I would qualify for an episode of Hoarders.
Getting rid of stuff seems like an offense against frugality if you don't count the storage costs. If you do, decluttering pays.
Posted 1 year ago # -
There are some places where they can clash - I certainly don't need the giant package of fifty rolls of toilet paper, and it takes us months and months to go through it, during which time it's taking up space under the sink. But it's a lot cheaper than buying them in packages of four (and saves the time and gas to go to the store more often, too). Even the most efficient Costco-style stocking up is not going to be "purely" uncluttered.
Not to mention there are cost-effective projects that will be gotten to but require storage because they're not being done right now - my SO buys sweaters and takes them apart for yarn, and has a yarn stash of nice yarn picked up at secondhand shops and the like for projects. Obviously this takes up more space than if we just bought yarn for a project as it came up, but it's (a) a lot cheaper and (b) allows for some creativity and the ability to play around with projects without a cash outlay at the start of every scarf or pair of socks. (Those really nice yarns are not cheap. Believe me, the amount of rent I pay for the space they take up is really worth it, especially since we don't plan to move to a smaller space anytime soon anyway.) I have more painting and collage supplies at any given time than I'm using for my current project, but it's certainly cheaper to have a couple of large paint containers than buy the tiny ones new every time I start on a new project.
People say "it's not clutter if you use it" but there's still a certain attitude that if you're not using it right now, or you can't say what the exact date is that you'll use it, it's clutter. I don't consider it clutter, but I know other people on this site would, so in that sense there is a conflict.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It makes sense to save for the future (toilet paper) or future projects (yarn) if you have the capacity. If there IS space under the sink, fifty rolls of TP are not clutter. If you had a pallet of TP and were storing it in the living room, then it's clutter.
Hoarders don't seem to realistically estimate capacity. If you have a good sense of just how much you can store, and still live in comfort and cleanliness, then frugality and decluttering aren't in conflict.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Luxcat, I too would be interested in a couple of your examples.
On the whole, I have found decluttering to be compatible with current and future frugality but perhaps exposing my past profligacy :)
Decluttering coupled with organizing has made me more aware of what we already own. We no longer will have to by a new trowel or a new boxcutter -- because I've found about 10 of each and they now have permanent locations. I've also (I hope) learned what kinds of things I should not be buying. One is kitchen gadgets, which almost always remain unused. Another is stuff for future projects -- even if they are on sale, even if i fear I might not be able to find that exact thing again. By the time I get around to the project (if ever) the thing I just had to have (a roll of wallpaper, a case of tile) is no longer what I want or need.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I have found this to be overlapping and somewhat confusing as well. I like nice things, some expensive tastes abound in my family, and we are collectors. Reconciling the collecting with decluttering has been a challenge. However, my efforts to declutter have eliminated a lot of extraneous and duplicate "normal" (that is, not involved with our collections) objects...and the organization of what is left has improved our purchasing ability...in that we don't buy things we don't need (outside of collections). I don't think decluttering and frugality go hand in hand, unless taken to the minimalistic end.
Posted 1 year ago # -
i have always been inclined to buy ONE thing, but to make it the absolute best thing i could find.
i want quality, partly because it lasts and partly because if a thing is good quality to start with, then i know i am much more likely to use it often and to enjoy using it for a long time.
my husband subscribes to this theory 100% and whenever i am dithering between two items, he will say, get the one you love....because when you are using it and enjoying it for the next ten years, you won't be thinking of how much you could have saved if you'd bought the other one.
so, in that sense, decluttering can be counter-frugal....in the short term.
in the long term, i don't need to replace stuff nearly as often, so i believe it is more frugal eventually.
i take inspiration from my mother, who has always bought the best (sometimes second-hand) and who hasn't had to buy furniture or cookware or some equipment for literally decades.on the other hand, keeping small supplies of stuff around tends to encourage more thoughtful use of that stuff.....well it does here, anyway.
i have had a very busy few weeks, with a visitor and a lot of orders.
i was down to a very tiny amount of shampoo and i just couldn't get to town to buy a new bottle.....and it is amazing for how many days i made that shampoo last.
i know if i had had another bottle right there, i'd have used it up in half the time.decluttering has helped to really streamline my ideas of what i actually need in my home.
it has made me realise there is very little that i need to buy to keep my life ticking along.
i think i am moving towards minimalism.Posted 1 year ago # -
to quote bandiccote:
"decluttering has helped to really streamline my ideas of what i actually need in my home. it has made me realise there is very little that i need to buy to keep my life ticking along. i think i am moving towards minimalism."this has happened to me, too. and i really mean: this has happend, it was not my "fault"/ my aim. but i love it! even though i must be honest: frugality is not my aim. i enjoy buying less but better (an more expensive) things that i could not afford before.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I also don't aim for frugality or minimalism, but for being uncluttered, i.e. knowing where stuff is, having only what I need and love. But like Mimi, I've learned to thoroughly think about what I let into my home. And "buying less but better" items mean that I value them more and they last longer, so that's frugal in the end, right? I also agree with everyone who said that it makes perfect sense to buy stuff in bulk to save money - as long as I have the room to store it without problems and as long as I know that it will definitely be used up within maybe a year (or before the next move, LOL).
And yes please, we need some examples ;o) Where do those ideas clash? I couldn't really think of one.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This has been a struggle for me, because I spent so much of my life with very little money; DH came shopping with me last week to help me buy decent winter gear, and I had to be argued into buying the coat that actually does what I need it to do (keep me warm and dry when there's a foot of snow that has to be shoveled off the pavement, with a zip-out liner to make it a three-season coat) rather than keep going with a sweatshirt under a short fleece jacket, or settling for something cheaper that wouldn't please me on a practical or aesthetic level.
I had a similar mental struggle with purchasing a Nook and a dishwasher: no, they aren't essential to life, but they are both in constant use, we could afford to pay cash for them, and the levels of clutter have dropped dramatically as a result. When we move, it's going to make it easier to sell the house, and the boxes of books that have to be shifted will drop to two rather than twenty.
Posted 1 year ago # -
One area where I've noticed conflict between frugality and uncluttering is travel, both by car and by plane. Carrying your own snacks, drinks, entertainment, etc. can save a lot of money but also takes up a lot of luggage space or extra space in the car (like for a cooler). It also requires extra time for more preparation and packing.
"Buy it when you get there" has been mentioned in a few of the travel threads, especially regarding toiletries. I don't think that's terribly useful, though, unless you are going to a place for long enough to use up the stuff, or visiting someone who can store it for you until next time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
dear lucy1965: imho, I can empathize with your feelings of wanting to save money. The purchases you mentioned in today's post have been so positive and helpful in your life. If you notice the "I shouldn't have bought these" or "I paid too much" thoughts popping into your head, try answering back with "Look how useful these new items are". I believe I remember how happy you were when you got your e-reader recently. I think you are a very wise and careful shopper. Let yourself enjoy these three new purchases while you prepare to move.
Posted 1 year ago # -
*blushes, hugs SunshineR* *puts 4 more books that have recently become available for Kindle on the Amazon wish list, including two of my most used cookbooks!*
Posted 1 year ago # -
sorry it took me a while to get back to this post. it's been "one of those weeks".
I think that the overlap I am talking about is *exactly* what was discussed here. Examples... buying a large box of fish tank filters and then ending up decluttering my fishtank recently... the huge bottle of hand soap that I bought to refill all our hand soap dispensers in the hopes of not only saving money but keeping stuff out of landfills... takes up a ton of space... the inability to buy more than 12 rolls of TP at a time... it would be great and save trips to the store and money... but no place to put it. and irulan's point about travel is right on the nose!
Posted 1 year ago # -
lucy1965: awww!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Goodness, I was about to burst of curiosity regarding the reason for the opening post, so thanks for getting back to us, luxcat!
The overlap you're talking about is actually not one, but two things:
a) bad luck, if I may be bold enough to chuck the responsibility on something else than you, and
b) restricted space.Decluttering a small space creates more space, but on the other hand the walls, floors and ceilings become the ultimate end point. I know exactly what you mean when you bring toilet paper up, as they simply take up too much space. On the other hand, living in a smaller flat usually is happening in a city setting and luckily the distance to a store is never very long. You can still strive for frugality elsewhere; clothing, furniture and so on of good quality, which will last longer. As an example, my parents bought their expensive sofa over 30 years ago and the upholstery has been changed once, but other than that it's still going strong.
Casualties of war are bound to happen. Decluttering is a major change on more than one level and so it can't be expected to happen smoothly enough never to create any small mishaps, just like the fish tank you mentioned. Most of these situations, however, are usually nuisances on a psychological level rather than physical, as the problem - a superfluous item - is gone as soon as said item has left your home. The aftermath can last a lot longer, though, but I find consolation in actions such as coming to this forum for support, either active or as a lurker.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've travelled between two homes over the past six years and it's more than annoying. During shorter trips, however, I use small bottles that I fill up with my own shampoo etc., and if the bottle itself came from a hotel or such, I can justify leaving it behind once it's been emptied (I know approximately how much I need of each by now). Travel kits are too expensive and they usually contain other than my trusted cleaning gear anyway, and so this has become my favoured way of travelling. It's frugal too :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
@ninakk: How do you clean those reusable bottles? So far I've taken to microwaving them a little bit before rinsing, but even that doesn't always get rid of all the residue.
@luxcat: refills are the bane of a small home's existence, I think. I totally feel you on the "stocking up" front. That issue always hits me with after-holiday sales, too. I know that wrapping paper and decorations are ridiculously cheap compared to buying them in season, but then I'd have to store them for an entire year! Ninakk has a good point about the trade offs, but that always feels like cold comfort on the occasions that I find myself paying more for something when I actually need it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think in the biggest picture, the higher cost of buying many small amounts of things is still a frugal choice if the reason is that you are living in a smaller space; the smaller space is a huge money-saver, almost everywhere. I know for us, we pay more not just in our mortgage but also in utilities, upkeep, and time for our larger-than-necessary space. It's just hard to see day to day.
And a lot of times there is a less cluttery and less expensive option (like bar soap, or getting a hotel shampoo bottle and refilling it at home).
And stuff like buying ahead to save money and then changing your circumstances, that just happens, it's a gamble either way - if you *don't* declutter the fishtank, you end up paying more.
Have any of you read The Paradox of Choice? I like it a lot - one thing the author talks about is the emotional and time costs of decisionmaking. I think cutting down on regret (by, say, not looking to see if something I bought went on sale later) is a good emotional decluttering move.
Posted 1 year ago #
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