Minimalist Mooches?

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Started 10 months ago by PandP
Latest reply from Laetitia in Australia
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PandP
Member

For the past year, I've been cleaning out my things as well as helping my parents get their house in order. We're nowhere near finished, but we've been chipping away at it and things look a lot better than they did last July.

Over the course of this project, I've read some minimalist blogs and thought about people I know in real life who lead so-called minmalist lifestyles and I'm beginning to question the behavior of some of these folks.

I've noticed that a lot of the minimalists seem to thrive on borrowing other people's stuff. Need a weed whacker? Ask a neighbor. Car-less by choice? Hitch rides with friends. Want to bake a cake? Ask me for my mixer.

I'm sure a lot of minimalists on this board don't lead lives like this, but it just seems as though some folks simply feel entitled to ask other people for things rather than buy them themselves.

Before people break out the flame-throwers, if it's a one-time thing like borrowing a chin saw to break up a tree that was blown over or a special cooking utensil like a candy thermometer, I'm all for it. Also, if you can't afford a car or even can't drive anymore (like my mum), I have no problem offering a ride.

I'm just really taking issue with people who think that minimalism = the right to mooch off of others.

Is it really minimalism when someone is simply relying on others to make the purchases and store the item?

Posted 10 months ago #
jlw
Member

I love the idea of sharing tools or other less frequently used items, but I think you're right, if it all goes one way and you're not lending as well as borrowing, it becomes mooching. However, if you borrow my mixer as often as I borrow your weed whacker, it seems like a much better arrangement than us both owning mixers and weed whackers.

There are also things like the car sharing services in some cities and I've even heard of tool libraries and toy libraries (as well as the usual book/media/information libraries). Of course, such things are not free; they have to be supported by membership fees and/or taxes.

Posted 10 months ago #
themusiclivez
Member

I consider myself a minimalist and I agree with your post, PandP. I own items that I use and that I need in my life. I would find it to be a huge inconvenience to have to borrow something everytime I needed it. Even if I only use my mixer twice a year, I like knowing that it is there when I want to bake a cake. And I would feel like a mooch if I had to keep borrowing things.

On another level, however, I like being able to borrow books, CDs, and DVDs from friends. They borrow those from me as well :o)

Posted 10 months ago #
Claycat
Member

PandP, you are right.

I hate loaning things. They often come back broken or not at all, so I don't do it much. My neighbor borrowed my weed whacker, and it came back broken.

I do give rides to an older lady who lives in my neighborhood and doesn't have a car. I would not loan my car. The liability is too scary.

I have to agree that there is definitely a line between borrowing and mooching.

Posted 10 months ago #
Sky
Member

It's great if it works both ways but usually, someone gets the short end of the deal. I've loaned things that were never returned or returned broken.

My FIL and BIL borrowed our pressure washer so much they wore it out and FIL asked DH if he was going to buy a new one! When DH borrowed FIL's spot lights, they broke so, of course, we were going to buy him a new one and he said he wanted a chop saw instead!!

I think I prefer not to borrow or lend....

Posted 10 months ago #
JuliaJayne
Member

Oh, Sky... the nerve of some people!

Posted 10 months ago #
themusiclivez
Member

What is it with people not returning things? I always wonder that - I have an elite group of people who I borrow/lend things with because of that (like I mentioned earlier, we do this with CDs, DVDs, and books). I used to be much more generous with who I loaned items to until they stopped coming back to me at all!

Posted 10 months ago #
hazygirl
Member

I don't mind lending to someone who suddenly needs something unexpectedly. However, I do mind lending to someone who feels it unnecessary to plan for their own needs.

This reminds me of Tim Ferris' approaching to packing light for travel. http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/07/11/how-to-travel-the-world-with-10-pounds-or-less-plus-how-to-negotiate-convertibles-and-luxury-treehouses/

He blatantly says that he purposefully doesn't pack or purchase anything that he knows he can borrow from other travellers. That is very presumptuous. If I am on a bird watching trip with others, I expect them to have their own binoculars, and to not be borrowing mine.

Posted 10 months ago #
mugwump
Member

My husband is the guy with every tool possible in his garage; all organized, of course. He routinely lends tools to the neighbors, and they are responsible. He grew up in a culture (small town Vermont) where everyone kind of keeps score; after you've done someone a few favors, they are expected to reciprocate or at least pass it on. One neighbor shovels our snow if we are out of town, and we give him wood when we have it. It works out well when everyone is on the same page, but some people don't get it.

Posted 10 months ago #
susanintexas
Member

Mooching coupled with self-righteousness is absolutely the worst combination.

I had (have?) a friend who for the longest time did not have a car and was explicit about his reasons -- less impact of the environment, etc. Bit of a prig about it. But did he walk/ ride a bike / take the bus? Of course not. One of us WITH a fossil fuel guzzler had to pick him up and take him home, sometimes several times a week. For me, it added about 8 miles and 20 minutes each way for each "shuttle." And he never offered to help pay for gas.

Like others, I don't mind helping when people who genuinely need help or lending rarely used expensive items, but I don't appreciate being lectured to about my wasteful consumerist ways while providing chauffeur service.

Posted 10 months ago #
needtocleanhouse
Member

I had an experience similar to yours susanintexas and I finally asked them to chip in for gas and they had a narcissistic fit and tried to get revenge.

This is a definition I found on the web:

"In order to "qualify" as a narcissist, a person must meet some or all of the below criteria:
Inability to empathy
Expects special treatment
Feeling of entitlement
Inability to admit that he or she is wrong
Inability to receive criticism
Unexpected, strong bursts of rage in situations that would not trigger rage in normal people. There aggressive outbursts are referred to as narcissistic rage.
Does not react to tears. If other person starts crying due to the cruel behavior of a narcissist, that may even aggravate the rage of a narcissist
Perceives oneself as omnipotent, superior individual
Strong need for admiration. Admiration serves as a form of a narcissistic supply. Without sufficient amount of narcissistic supply a narcissist feels empty and unsatisfied. A narcissist is like a drug addict, and narcissistic supply in its different forms is the drug.
Is often envious and mocks other people (often behind their back)"

Posted 10 months ago #
themusiclivez
Member

To those of you who give rides to people on a regular basis: I just want to warn you that God forbid you have an accident and that person gets hurt, they can sue you. My grandfather used to give rides to a man every morning who didn't have a car, out of the kindness of his heart. Someone hit my grandfather's car while he was driving the man to work, and the man tried to sue my grandfather (he wasn't even injured, from what I remember of the story). Nice, right? My grandfather never even took gas money from him. Your car insurance will pay for medical bills up to a certain amount, but even still, it's a responsibilty. I recommend making sure your insurance policies have excellent liability limits, because you just never know!

A friend of mine, whose family was totally "sue-happy" used to ask for rides places. I always told her absolutely not.

It's sad that you try to do a good deed and then get taken advantage of. I can't believe that people even have the nerve to say that they don't own cars for environmental reasons but then think nothing of mooching rides off of everyone else!

Posted 10 months ago #
Mimi
Member

a minimalist is a minimalist, a mooch is a mooch. there are a lot of non-minimalistic mooches and a lot of minimalists who are no mooches. from my point of view minimalism is about not needing a lot, not about needing a lot that you don´t own sothat you have to borrow it.

the minimalists that i know are very cautious and sensitive to stuff and relationships.

susanintexas, wow you picked that person several times a week?! 20 minutes more to go?! wow! i would have done that one time, maybe two times. in case of an emergency. :) and i think i would have told him/her: if you don´t have a car, don´t want to take a bus or a bike: WALK :) it´s very healthy and eco-friendly :D

Posted 10 months ago #
susanintexas
Member

My "mooch" was (informally) diagnosed by all of us as having a narcissistic personality disorder. NTCH -- you nailed it. I picked him up and took him home at least once a week for almost five years. A friend was working on a project with him and did the same every day for THREE MONTHS. He never even said thanks for the ride and thought it was a rare and special privilege to get to spend that much time one-one-one with him. We reached the breaking point when five of us (all women) were cleaning our space after an event while he watched, tapping his foot with impatience. When he asked if I could hurry up a bit so that he could get home in time to watch the news, I shoved the vacuum cleaner into his hands and drove home without him.

Posted 10 months ago #
Rosa
Member

We do a lot of lending and borrowing, but it's generally very mutual - my friend who borrows our car regularly, first of all he brings me tons of free food from his parents farm, but also he comes over and digs my compost for me, and he's done a ton of childcare.

We have a friend who we borrow from a lot, but it's because he has every tool under the sun. We try to help out reciprocally but he really likes to buy tools, so we hardly ever can. We do shovel/take in mail when they go out of town.

Our neighborhood has a real alleyway culture - the garages are all unattached, opening onto the alley, so if you're back there working people are likely to stop by and chat and often offer to help/ask to borrow. It's nice.

Last summer we were digging up a shit-ton of echinacea plants and someone randomely stopped by and asked if they could have them, which was awesome becasue I really didn't have enough space in my compost. People have given me seeds & starts when I just stopped to say I admired their gardens. And there's almost a competition to give away produce, right now.

Posted 10 months ago #
Rosa
Member

Oh, and to kill the pollyanna vibe of the previous post - what pisses me off is people who are derogatory about how much stuff/space we have, who LEAVE THEIR CRAP HERE or have it delivered here or ask me to store it for them and get pissed off if I say no. Fine, you want to live in one room/have a PO box and backpack the world/pretend to be a minimalist but not give up your stuff? Then you pay for professional storage. I'm trying to dejunk my house, if it looks like I have a lot of space then THAT IS WHY.

It pisses me off when people who live "minimalist" but actually have all their precious things at their parents bitch about how mainstream and ungreen their parents are, too.

Posted 10 months ago #
Sky
Member

Me too, Rosa. My MIL had a piece of furniture refinished and didn't want the smell of the chemicals in her house or garage so she asked us to keep it until it aired out! Just because I have extra space, does not mean I want your crap at my house.

It would be great if families or neighbors could each have some tools and share. It would be frugal and minimalist. Guess it depends on the family or neighbors.

Guess I sound bitchy about my DH's parents but some of the things they blow my mind.

Posted 10 months ago #
Claycat
Member

Wow!

This is why communism never works. Communism is actually an ideal state, because it involves everyone doing their part and sharing. However, it always becomes corrupt and unworkable, because someone is always greedy or wants power and control. Then it becomes totalitarian like the Soviet Union did. That's why checks and balances are good. I wish they still worked. Unfortunately it seems that democracies and republics can also be overtaken by greed and control.

Unfortunately many of these stories are examples of how many of us devolve. The narcissists gain control. That is why countries fail and fall. It is ever so. :(

Posted 10 months ago #
shebolt
Member

I think the extreme was the guy who lived on friends' couches, and was proud of his minimalist lifestyle.

I'm car-light (one car for my husband and I). I take a train to work. I try very hard not to inconvenience anyone else because of my choice not to own a car. When I need to meet coworkers at the place where we keep some of our pool cars, I drive my husband to work and he bikes home. I don't think they should adjust their schedules so we can be back from our site inspections in time for me to pick up my husband.

I'm also appreciative of coworkers who offer to take me with them on lunch errands. I never ask them or expect them to take me with them, but they seem more than happy to offer.

Posted 10 months ago #
ArtGal
Member

I agree with Mimi..."a mooch is a mooch..."
And may I add, a schmoozer is a schmoozer. Some folks wax poetic about how minimalist they are, when in fact they are schmoozing time, things, and energy from anyone that will give, lend, or listen. It may be a "pay-attention-to-me" thing.

I think true declutterers and/or minimalists know what they need, or have what they need, and if they don't, at least they borrow with high regard for others possessions. True borrowers return items in good condition (and maybe even better condition :) They also appreciate what others do for them and give back in return. A schmoozer doesn't care and doesn't reciprocate...and usually becomes quite offended when told "NO." The narcissists definition is spot-on!

Be wary of the Schmoozer...they are good at what they do and quite tenacious, always looking for a good-natured soul! I have found that if I refuse them twice, they will move on to their next victim and not look back. I have actually had schmoozers deny even borrowing things from me in the first place...they borrow so much stuff from so many people they can't even keep track of it all! I now only let it happen once per person, because I will come back with "when you return my (item) I will gladly let you borrow (additional item)" or "you returned my (item) broken so I can't loan you my (additional item.)" I no longer have qualms about saying this as it will solve the issue either way...they'll return or fix the item or never ask you again!

Posted 10 months ago #

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