How do they keep the door closed?

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How do they keep the door closed?

(14 posts) (11 voices)

Started 7 months ago by Rosa
Latest reply from bandicoot
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Rosa
Member

Hope this isn't too off-topic, it's not about unclutterers but hoarders.

I've been reading about hoarders a lot lately, and watched 2 seasons of the show Hoarders in about 2 and a half weeks (my requests finally came in from the library) and one of the common themes is that they just don't have people in the house. Like for years - on the Hoarders show they'll specify, 2 years, 6 years, whatever.

As a person who has often attempted to keep people out of my house, I want to know the actual mechanics of this. Just not inviting people over does not work - I have planned offsite events just to avoid having all my son's grandparents (including divorced couples) in my living room, and it doesn't help, they just come over afterward or show up the night before with a carful of food, or ring the doorbell repeatedly or (this really happened) think "well they're not home but I know where the spare key is and I really need to pee so it will be OK."

Is it just that the intense shame overrides all social conditioning so they are just outright rude to people to keep them out? Or is it the other people falling away because the environment in the house is so uncomfortable? Because the kinds of people I would expect to drop in (neighbors, coworkers, kids friends parents) are always saying they're shocked and surprised, they had no idea it was like that in there...I'll tell you if my son's friends could never come here and I didn't let people in the door when they dropped by, people would speculate like crazy.

(brought to you by my fascination with hoarders and the political canvassers on my porch yesterday afternoon.)

Posted 7 months ago #
lottielot
Member

Rosa: it sounds like you are just surrounded by a bunch of really nosy people! Only people I have invited over would come in my house, and that includes relatives. Mil once tried the whole thing of 'just popping in on the way to somewhere else' and was told firmly by dh never to do it again! I think it's a case of real cultural differences: there are certain societies/social circles where people popping in is ok, and there are others where it is not ok, presumably these hoarders either inhabit the sort where it's not ok, or they have just worked hard at discouraging visitors.
Ps: did the key thing really happen to you? You need to move that key!

Posted 7 months ago #
Rosa
Member

Oh, I moved the key! And I've learned to lock the back door most of the time too, because I have had acquaintances who think and unlocked door means just walk in.

We do have a drop-in culture and two families full of completely boundaryless people (yes the key thing really happened, and I did move the key. It actually happened one time before that, friends brought in other friends from out of town and we were naked so they have never done that again.) But also - are there really subcultures where, say, if another parent brings your kid home from an outing you don't invite them in? I'm from the Midwest of the US and it's a big strain on my conditioning not to always have coffee & snacks to offer, I can't imagine not inviting people in or offering at least a glass of water.

Posted 7 months ago #
Anita
Member

I agree with Lottie, it could be a cultural thing. I come from a culture where unannounced guests are quite common, so we developed a knack for making ourselves and the house presentable in 30 seconds. Where I live now, dropping in unannounced is almost taboo.

I'm thinking maybe the fact that guests could come at any moment is helping some of the world stay tidy and uncluttered? Maybe our society could benefit from putting a bit more pressure on people to keep their homes tidy and livable?

Posted 7 months ago #
ojorojo
Member

Re: Hoarders-Well it does help to have so much stuff behind the door that it doesn't really open! And the smell is probably noticeable too.
I'm guessing some of these folks you deal with wouldn't know a boundary if it fell on their head, the sense of community is nice and all but you can't be playing hostess when you have your own things to do.

Posted 7 months ago #
Rosa
Member

Luckily and unluckily, our families all live far away. It makes their visits less frequent, but longer, and I'm unable to turn them away at the door when I invite them for one day and they show up a day early, making the visit an extra day.

Posted 7 months ago #
susanintexas
Member

Interesting question. I suspect there is some correlation between sociability/home entertaining and hoarding/untidiness (or, clutter to the point where it becomes dysfunctional.)

I've always assumed that most of my friends have neater/tidier/cleaner houses than mine but then I realized that I only get invited over to the houses that are "presentable." The messier ones don't let me in :)

I agree that having an "open" house is a cultural thing but I think it's fairly common to keep people out. My MIL didn't let anyone into her house for YEARS, not even family (and they are very close.) If we'd pick her up to take her to dinner she'd be waiting on the porch for us, we thought with excited anticipation. It wasn't until she fell and needed help that it dawned on any of us that she was deliberately keeping us out to hide the mess. On the surface, she was holding it together. I clean for her now and we visit -- inside -- several times a week. She's become neater knowing that we are going to drop by.

Posted 7 months ago #
lucy1965
Member

Like Anita, I grew up in a place where neighbors were in and out of each other's houses all day long. My mother was astonished once during a visit when I locked the doors upon going out: I had to explain that where I live, if you leave your house unlocked there is a good chance that people will come in and take your things away. My father was horrified to discover that I didn't know most of my neighbors and couldn't rely on them for help if we needed it.

A woman of my former acquaintance was and is a Level 4 hoarder; my experience with her and with her husband was that they simply didn't "see" the state of their living conditions any more, and those friends who kept visiting either stayed in the front yard or had homes nearly as bad. Our friendship ended when they were evicted after a year of partial rent payments -- which none of us knew about before it was too late to find a way to help them -- and I politely declined to let them move in with us. (We did offer to pay a deposit and first month's rent on an apartment in the town where they were living -- we are 45 miles away -- help them move, and help her husband apply for disability.)

Posted 7 months ago #
irishbell
Member

I would always invite someone in, I would feel terribly rude if I didn't.
But then again, I enjoy having friends and neighbors in, and not everyone is like that.
I guess I'm just not friends with people who wouldn't invite me into their home, whether or not I called first!
And vice versa- I've occasionally had to say "pardon the mess...." but always invited them in.
I always found having people over a good motivation to keep things clean.
I imagine some folks are just more private, and it feels like an intrusion to have someone in their home?

Posted 7 months ago #
Emilie
Member

Hmm. As others have said, it may be a cultural thing, or something that can even change based on neighborhood. No one has ever dropped by my house without being invited. I always wished people would drop by my house, because it just seemed convivial, but no one ever has.

Posted 7 months ago #
chacha1
Member

I have been an apartment dweller all my adult life. For several years in Atlanta, and for longer in Los Angeles. If my experience is anything to go by, the drop-in visitor is rare and mostly unwelcome in the big-city environment. I very much enjoy having *invited* guests, but I would not want even my close friends to feel free "dropping by." (See above re: "naked"!) ... It would be all too easy to develop numerous pathologies behind those closed doors.

As to the hoarding-in-solitude phenomenon and how it works (keeping others out of the house, or driving them out), I haven't watched the shows extensively but the ones I have seen have all showcased similar (and similarly unpleasant) personalities. These are not what most of us would consider "nice" people. They aren't evil, but they are antisocial, self-involved, truculent, obstructive, and various colors on the range from defensive to combative to hostile. Not to mention, generally hygienically challenged.

From what I've seen, the worse the hoarding gets, the worse the personality disorder gets. I doubt that keeping people away takes much intentional work.

Healthy animals almost always avoid sick ones. It's purely through the power of the human brain that our mentally ill are no longer shoved into dungeons.

Posted 7 months ago #
djk
Member

The last couple of weeks I have been thinking about this. I like the IDEA of drop-in neighbourliness and all, but the cruel reality is that our lives are simply too busy. I crave a few minutes alone at home when I can get them, which is seldom.

We have a new SAHM neighbour in our apartment house and once we had a friendly chat in the courtyard garden. After that she twice invited me to have coffee at hers but both times I was rushing hither and yon and just couldn't. Since then I haven't seen her but I want to somehow manage to have contact again. Communication is challenging as both of us are non-native German speakers and we don't share any other languages. Nonetheless, we got a good vibe from each other and I would like to encourage that positive contact. But working a few jobs and then having work (reading, researching, lesson prep) at home to do in the evenings puts me in a frame of mind that is not conducive to relaxed, friendly conversation. We both work intensively with people all day--I teach, he runs small-group seminars--and we are DONE after that.

In a working urban environment I can't imagine this pop-by situation being possible. We have so few evenings at home I don't want to share them. I just want to have a nice dinner with DH then do some work and go to bed.

Posted 7 months ago #
chacha1
Member

@djk: that's the situation where you leave a note! Suggesting a time for that coffee - your place or hers or the courtyard - that's possible for you. The note could just say "I enjoyed meeting you, my work schedule is crazy but I'd love to have that coffee, how about ... ?"

I used to feel I had no time for socializing, but once I started making an effort my stress levels went down. Just a half-hour every couple of weeks can make you feel like you have a LIFE as opposed to a series of Things I Must Do.

And no matter how excellent our mates may be, most of us need more than one person to connect to.

Posted 7 months ago #
bandicoot
Member

we quite enjoy it when people drop in....provided it isn't crazily early or late.
we pretty much always have time for a cup of coffee and an hour of chat.
we have the luxury of work that isn't very dead-line-ish.....it can always wait until later, and we'll just work an hour later to catch up again.
my whole family loves to sit around and chat...it's definitely a cultural thing.
we did it when we lived in the city and we do it now we are rural.
we gather like-minded folks wherever we go.

Posted 7 months ago #

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