My fiancee and I agree on most things, except for decluttering. He wants to keep everything his daughter has ever made or used. While I agree on keeping art projects and things she has made that are special, I don't see any reason why we should keep her toddler toys, for instance. I have only entered their lives this past year, and she is now 8 years old. Her room is so cramped with toys that she can barely use it, and she has the MASTER BEDROOM with a walk-in closet (that is now waist high in stuff). How can I convince him to let go of a few things? Once I explained to her how I could make her room more useable by taking out things she does not use, she could actually be able to find things she wants to play with, she is on board with the purge. But, he won't budge.
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Wow.
Have you asked him why he wants to do that? Would he be more comfortable if he knew where the stuff went, perhaps a special charity?
As for what to do, I have a few suggestions
Very rational approach: Ask him where he intends to store the things once she is grown and moves out. (May not go down well if he wants to hold on to her as to her toys - he may not want to contemplate her moving out.)
Less rational approach: Ask him where all his old toys are and whether he misses them, and if yes, which ones he misses most (Bad luck for you if it turns out that his parents still have everything of his!)
Gradual approach: Find someplace else to store the cluttery stuff than his daughter's room. Cram the things in boxes, put them in the cellar/attic/garage - heck, his closet as _he_ wants to keep the stuff, not his daughter!). In six months to two years, open the boxes together, decide whether he still wants to hold on to all of it.
The cheeky approach: Have his daughter make a beautiful big-box wrapped present to him of all the stuff she does not want anymore. It's then his - for better or for worse.
Good luck!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Unfortunately we live in an apartment, so options for storage are limited. My fiancee also uses rationale is that his daughter can use them when she has a baby, someday. I'm trying to convince him that we are going to run out of room.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hmmmm...
I would go very slowly with this, and sort of feel out what your place in this family is... it sounds like he's harboring a lot of guilt for some reason and wants to give everything material to his daughter to make up for it (gut feeling, wild guess).
He's your fiance... have you discussed which room you guys would stay in should you move in? are you ok with that choice? other than the daughter's room is the rest of the house being run in a way that you think you could adjust into? do you have children you would be bringing into the house? would they feel ok with how things are?
sounds to me that there is way more than decluttering going on here... but it also sounds like this might be a well-timed and hopefully low-conflict litmus test for a lot of things!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I am living with them now. I do not have any children. He & I have agreed that we will not move his daughter until we buy a house, when she will be in one of the smaller bedrooms and he and I will have the master.
He had a very rough childhood. His parents were distant at best. He ended up having his own apartment at 15. Sometimes, I think he may be trying to give to her everything that he didn't have. Could this be part of OCD?Posted 1 year ago # -
The poor grandchild, arriving into a room already (by then - more than) waist-high in stuff!
Perhaps you can go through the piles, really look at things and at least for a first move toss what is in too bad condition to be gifted to said future grandchild?
Would he have wanted to equip his daughter only with things of his?But I agree, it's a tricky situation - he may not be aware of what his real motivations are and you're the "newcomer". Perhaps he would be more amenable if his daughter herself makes her case, as far as it his her real wish.
And then the upcoming move may present an opportunity to not move everything.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Fortunately his daughter thinks I'm great. I just get frustrated that there are toy bins surrounding the dining room table, each about waist high in addition to her bedroom chaos. I know that if I had the time and money I could purge a lot, and then use the vertical space more effectively with shelving. I am also frustrated that some of my stuff was accidentally tossed into one of these bins and now I can't find it.
When I moved in I had purged a bunch of my own stuff, and I have additional things stored at my mother's. My fiancee has said that we'll look at it when we move to a house, but I think something should be done before then.Posted 1 year ago # -
There were a couple of "Hoarders" episode that addressed this issue -- perhaps it would be useful for you to search for them online.
It doesn't sound to me like there is much room for you in this household.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This post totally hit home for me. I am that daughter as an adult - grown, married, and ready to have kids of my own. The childhood clutter is literally the only contentious issue in my otherwise wonderful relationship with loving parents.
I've been meaning to start a thread about it for ages so I won't hijack your thread with the details here, but suffice to say that it's very stressful to explain to my dad that my old car seat (from the 80s!) is no longer safe for children to use, and to have him agree but still not throw it away - or my crib, or my brother's crib, etc.
It seems like your husband has accumulated more in 8 years than my dad did over more than 20, so it's definitely an urgent situation for both you and his daughter. Are you doing any kind of marriage prep classes? Those are opportune times to bring something like this up without coming across as judgmental. I agree with susanintexas - it doesn't sound like there's much room for you, and this is your home, too.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I would suggest at a minimum adopting a one in/one out rule starting right now. In that way, the daughter's clutter won't get any worse.
As to dealing with the amount of clutter that is already there, I would suggest letting your fiance know that keeping some of her older stuff is OK, BUT that in the small apartment, unfortunately, there is simply no room for keeping these older things.
Good luck.
Posted 1 year ago # -
This one is tough. I'd advocate the thing-a-day approach (I'm sure you've seen this thread on the forum). It's a slow approach but I think it works because it gives people time to give things up, and for new unclutterers it gives them time to see that the sun will still rise in the morning, even if your stuff is gone. It also allows the most important things to stay. You're not asking for a complete overhaul, you're just asking to cull a few things that are no longer useful, maybe even broken. Once he sees that her room looks better and the things she has are better taken care of, he may build a certain momentum in terms of getting rid of things.
Just BTW, as someone who was in school for 10 years and pretty much broke the whole time, I can say that I think it is harder for people in this demographic to part with things. It has taken me awhile to adjust to a different way of looking at things.
You might also try taking a photo of his daughter's room, and show him a little girls room from a furniture catalog or so, and ask him which one he wants for his child.
Posted 1 year ago # -
There are a ton of Flylady testimonials about how much happier kids are with space than stuff, and I'm sure others from other sites, if something like that would help.
Also, she's 8: how does she feel about it, and will he listen to her? Even if she's happy presented with the aggregate, if you started sorting through the bins to organize them, she will probably say "ew" to the toddler toys, and you can box them up as his problem instead of leaving them all mixed in with her current stuff.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Since I moved in with them I was willing to accomodate myself to their space. I'm going to discuss it with his daughter and see how she'd like to approach it. I regularly weed through my clothing to give anything away that doesn't fit, or I don't wear, is too worn to look presentable, etc. I'll see if we can at least start parting with the broken stuff & garbage first. I feel kind of stuck, it's up to me to do it, but he wants the final decision on what to give or throw away. Whenever I get motivated to do it, I feel like he's just going to veto everything anyway.
Posted 1 year ago # -
1. You really need to talk about this with an objective third party -- are you doing premarital counseling? This is the kind of thing I deal with when I marry people. It ties in to so many issues. How will you make decisions together? How will you make parenting decisions together?
2. Objectively, this stuff will all be valueless by the time the daughter has grown up. Could you have a garage sale and have all the proceeds go into her college fund? Have her buy a special toy with 10% of the proceeds? There are many ways to deal with this. But if you don't deal with #1 first, #2 is just a "how" not a "why" which, at best, only buys you time.
Good luck!
Posted 1 year ago # -
This is so tricky. Do you know the deeper reasons for his hoarding of these things? Was he a busy disengaged working dad who feels guilty for missing the early years of her childhood?
Whatever the reasons, I think you've definitely got the right idea to begin with trash and broken items. However, I strongly recommend that you do it only ONE item per day. Hoarders tend to see stuff as a mass rather than as individual items, so they don't see a hopelessly damaged thing unless it is held up to view separately out of context. If you and his daughter can present a united front, especially if she chimes in with something like: "Daddy, it's broken, I don't want it anymore, I hate it" or words to that effect, he should be able to see the light for that one item. Next day, next item.
If he absolutely refuses to budge even on one broken item, then apparently there's something much deeper at work and it may be best for the three of you to go to family counseling.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Whenever two people are this different, where one wants to change the other (even though we're on your side), it seems unlikely to work in the long run. My advice is to have him read 10 minimalist blogs daily, but what are the odds he'd actually do that?
Posted 1 year ago # -
giviyah - do NOT marry this man - I know that sounds harsh but you will save yourself angst if you don't have that legal tie (even though you already have the physical / emotional tie) UNLESS he starts to see the light and lets go of stuff. I grew up the child of a hoarder - not quite as bad as some that you see on the show but that was probably only because of the other parent's effort. I ask the non-hoarding parent why they didn't leave the hoarding parent and the answer is along the lines of 'because I couldn't leave you children' and now it's because the hoarder has various health issues. There are serious boundary issues there.
Your fiancé may claim that things will be different in a new location and that you and he will have the master bedroom but the fact that there are bins of her stuff around the dining table in the current place says otherwise - he's not letting the available space control the amount of stuff. When you get to a new location, those bins and half the stuff in her room will be in her room, your room AND around the dining table, lounge....UNLESS he starts the process in your current home of letting go. It's a mental and skills issue - one doesn't suddenly acquire the ability to keep a house liveable and good looking along with the new house. It's not like getting a new hot-water system along with the new place.
You might try pointing out to him that you have no children of your own so there is nothing to say that his daughter will have children. (I'm the youngest of 4 girls and only the eldest two have children - I'm in my late 30s and have no plans for children.) Also try pointing out that while he's waiting for potential grandchildren, other children could be getting enjoyment from the toys and it is better that they be used by someone who will love them than have them disintegrate from lack of use and cleaning (this can happen with plastic and material, particularly if they weren't thoroughly cleaned before being stored) when they are pulled out of the tub in 25 years time.
His daughter can also help here by choosing her favourite toys that will fit in one tub that she would like to keep for her children. That way his stated goal is satisfied and he has no excuse for keeping the rest. Although she is only 8, his daughter needs to quickly develop her boundaries and tell her father that she will not let the rest of the stuff into her own home when she grows up, thereby putting the kibosh on his thoughts that he (in the role of doting grandfather) will give his grandchildren these things, as opposed to his daughter giving to her children in the role of parent.
Posted 1 year ago # -
giviyah....Wow! Is this really how you want to live? I'm with Laetitia in Australia, please get counseling BEFORE you marry this man. I know so many people that married a man with children and it can be a nightmare. Personally, I won't play second fiddle to anyone with my husband and especially not to a child.
He is defiantly letting the tail wag the dog and it will only get worse.
I'm not trying to be harsh but I believe you have some heavy thinking to do or you wouldn't have asked for our input.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Like Irulan, I am also this child as an adult. (Except, it is only recently that I've realized I need to get rid of stuff. Better late than, well, even later!) Does your husband have an OCD diagnosis, or is that just your theory? I do know that disorganization can be part of OCD for some people (and it gets quite bad for some).
I have organizational issues of my own. So I go for the low-hanging fruit when I'm decluttering: Stuff that is useless beyond a shadow of a doubt. The thing-a-day approach has worked well for me, also. So has making an effort to give things away to people who could use them, rather than just sending them to the landfill. I am religious about "one in, one out". Anyway, I say all this because I see a bit of myself in your fiance, although I've managed to go further down the path of uncluttering. It does take time.
However, if your fiance is unwilling to compromise in any way, that seems like a red flag to me.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just wanted to add my 2 cents...while I do agree with those who see this as a waving red flag, I noted that giviyah has said that she gets along with the daughter (good for you, as having been in a similar situation I know this can be very hard), that this is a relatively new relationship (less than a year, I think?), and that it seems deeper than the fiance putting the child before her, since it seems that the child is ready to move forward with getting rid of things and the dad isn't. So it seems that the root of the problem is not that he's putting his daughter's wants before his fiance's, but that he "just" can't get rid of stuff.
I'd at least try to start small with the thing a day approach. If you get the OK to get rid of something, I'd put it somewhere out of sight (do you have a storage unit or something?) so that you don't have to go through the discussion again when you take the bag of stuff to the goodwill or the dumpster or whatever.
Posted 1 year ago #
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