Unclutterer

1. Posted by Amanda - 03/18/2011

   Good suggestions. Also make sure what your definition of ‘clean’ is matches his. My husband and I ended up writing down each room and what equaled clean to us. Things like ‘wiping down the counters’ in the kitchen, or cleaning the toothpaste off the bathroom mirror were on my list – but not his.

2. Posted by ninakk - 03/18/2011

   Discuss your weaknesses and strengths and try to use this information as much as you can to the benefit of both. I might be an excellent cleaning lady but still really dislike certain chores and if my husband can do those for me then perfect! He doesn’t like making the bed and the result is not pretty either so I’m happy to take care of that. Sometimes it might end up being a bit uneven, but DH is an IT guy with hardcore knowledge that benefits me a lot; our network is more secure than most to mention one. He’s the one to use the car daily and therefore takes care of insurance and gas too – so these things don’t have to be just about organizing the home.

   Talk finances. How do you want to arrange your accounts? We have our own account(s) and a shared one to which we transfer our halves of the household expenses each month and although we don’t have a shared credit card yet, we’d like for it to be tied to this account with air mileage as a bonus. Do you want all income to go into one account? Do you want to share everything 50/50 even though one of you might earn more than the other? Or do you prefer a percentage according to income? If you choose the latter, you need to make sure that it is okay with both for real; you don’t want to find out later that the other has held grudges.

   Be prepared to compromise and say so if you feel that you are pushed into a corner. If it’s not clear to the other, tell them where you feel that you compromise.

   Find the glue that makes you a team and keep talking always. Create an atmosphere where it is okay to say anything as long as it is voiced with love and respect. Congratulations!

3. Posted by Layla - 03/18/2011

   I will come back to this later, but it’s interesting to read, because my boyfriend’s room is so impressively bad that I don’t like to set anything down on the desk or floor. Last night I called him and told him I’m not coming over until he cleans up his room. I should tell him what my minimum requirement for “clean” is.

   And if/when we move in together, the TV (and computer) are not going in the bedroom. Bedrooms are for sex and sleeping, and when a TV’s on both happen less frequently and are less enjoyable.

4. Posted by Java Monster - 03/18/2011

   A talk about cleanliness is a great topic to talk over before getting married. One thing that’s hard to talk over is how his (and your) attitude is going to change once you’re married. When you become married, sometimes the male half of the equation simply stops doing whatever he used to do, and expects his wife (just like mommy) to clean up after him. If that’s what he saw his dad doing, you’d better address that NOW, before the wedding. Living together doesn’t count. With many men and women there’s a switch that turns on, and boom! they expect traditional roles to pop into place, even when that wasn’t the agreement.

5. Posted by Judi - 03/18/2011

   Great start — to which I would add: Make sure you address the difference between “neat” and “clean.” They aren’t the same at all. If one is more important to one of you than the other, it’s very helpful to know that right away.

   Also be willing to try something and re-evaluate it later. You don’t have to get everything right the first time, as long as you’re willing to agree on what’s working and what isn’t.

6. Posted by Niall - 03/18/2011

   As suggested above, definition of clean is critical! My bf and I both think of ourselves as clean, but our priorities don’t always overlap. I’m happy if dishes sit in the sink with hot soapy water in them, or water glasses get used again straight from the dish drainer – but I really need the stove and counters to be scrubbed clean at all times. He can’t stand it if we finish a meal and the dishes aren’t washed, dried, and put away in a cabinet – but he never wipes down a surface.

   We each try to remember to do the things the other cares about, because it’s important; but honestly we both also try to accept that we’ll be more likely to [have to] take care of our own priorities – while remembering that the other person is doing other cleaning tasks that s/he cares about! It’s hard, because of course you notice the things you need far more than the things your partner may be doing for you. It has taken a certain amount of calm discussion of what each of us actually *does* do around the place, to realize that things end up being pretty equal in terms of cleaning responsibilities.

7. Posted by Re - 03/18/2011

   Always assume the best about your spouse. Your spouse may have different but perfectly acceptable ways of doing things.
   That said, our first year living together was tough due to different expectations so I strongly agree with everyone above who advised to make sure you share the same definition of clean. We ended up writing down all the chores with descriptions on index cards and dividing them up each week so neither of us felt like we were “doing everything.”
   My husband is not traditional at all but he definately underestimated how much work was involved in menu planning, shopping and cooking. I learned that I really hated cleaning the bathroom.

8. Posted by tba - 03/18/2011

   nice thoughts on the tv in the bedroom, Layla

   Just a suggestion for anybody moving in with someone, whether it is just a shared flat or a loveshack: Find out beforehand if you think certain rooms need to be cleaned more often and whether you like doing it. If you do, you might like the idea of setting up “territories” for each person. Like my flatmates really likes to work hard on a clean bathroom, whereas I personally think it is more important to keep the kitchen spot on. So we ended with her cleaning the bath quite often while I do the kitchen. Afterwards, the whole flat looks nice and we both did what we loved.

   Similar to this, consider doing a different version of turntaking. One person might think “This trashcan is soo full”, the other one thinks “I can still take it out tomorrow morning”. So if you take equal turns (“Once me, once you”), one of you will be annoyed with how the other person handles this, and might think he/she is doing this more often. So try something like “I’ll be taking out the trash this month, you’ll be responsible for it next month.” This way you won’t argue over whose turn it is.

9. Posted by BPinCA - 03/18/2011

   My now fiance and I moved in together about a year ago and when we were bf/gf. First, he moved temporarily into my smaller 1 brm. That helped to give us a chance to weed out the dupilcates of things (kept a lot of the duplicates though….now we have a set of camping cookware from the set we didn’t want, etc). Him moving into the space I had to myself for almost 4 years was rough. I had my way of doing things there already, and it was hard to fit more stuff. We found our own place a couple months after, that eased the tension. I would recommend moving into a new space that is BOTH of yours rather than to one or the other, mostly if the space is tight. I know it’s not always possible, but if you do get a new place together, you’ll be setting up new rules and territory together rather than “that’s not how we do the dishes in this house.”

10. Posted by Angela - 03/18/2011

    Resist the urge to play “1950s Wifey” by doing everything- including keeping a spotless house. One day you will get tired of that madness, and your husband will rightfully be able to say, “But, you’ve always done it!”

11. Posted by Jackie Leeper - 03/19/2011

    My one suggestion is for both parties to go through their things. Those in a dorm room, parent’s house(They will be very appreciative.), and /or apartment. Declutter, clear out, dispose of duplicates, whatever. Trying to combine belongings of two people can create just as much mess as not taking out the trash, and clearing it out will make housekeeping easier.

12. Posted by joan - 03/19/2011

    the book Spousonomics … I’m getting it for my little bro about to be married. Helps you discuss the nitty gritty in a funny way and helps your marriage stay together since most divorce/marital stress is caused by $$. Unclutter your life by deciding on who does what when and there is always room to negotiate. I heard the authors on NPR and they were funny!

13. Posted by j - 03/19/2011

    This is definitely an extremely important topic to discuss with *anyone* you are going to live together with. But it extra important if you are a woman in a romantic relationship with a man – men still consciously or unconsciously except the woman to be their personal cleaning lady/mom.

    Dividing everyday tasks equally and write them down on a schedule is very helpful.

14. Posted by xarcady - 03/19/2011

    One helpful thing is to define what you mean when you name a specific chore. I know one marriage that nearly hit the rocks because the wife would ask the husband to “wash the dishes,” and then get upset when all the husband did was wash and dry and put away the dishes.

    To the wife, “wash the dishes” was shorthand for “clean up the kitchen after a meal.” She said, “wash the dishes,” but what she *meant* was “wash, dry and put away the dishes, sweep the kitchen floor, wipe down the counters and stovetop, scrub the sink and make sure everything used for the meal, both for cooking and eating it, is put away.”

    So you can see why she was upset with her husband. And you can see why her husband was completely confused as to why he was getting yelled at.

    To one roommate I had, “clean the bathroom” meant clean the sink, tub and toilet. Our other roommate thought it meant all that plus washing the floor and mirror and throw rug and the communal hand towels, plus emptying the trash can. That took a house meeting to resolve.

15. Posted by Dawn - 03/19/2011

    I totally agree with the “definition of clean” discussion. My husband grew up in a very cluttered and messy home. So his standards are pretty low. While I’m not the best housekeeper in the land, my mother was always pretty clean and organized, so I would like to keep my house that way. (I try.) However it would help me greatly to stay on the ball if I knew he cared a little bit. It’s easy for me to let things slide because I know it doesn’t matter to him if the house is a mess.

    However, I’d also like to make a more concrete suggestion: Make sure you go through your belongings BEFORE making the move and trash, sell, or give away any duplicates or things you won’t need. Make sure anything you register for is a need as opposed to a want. Go through all your clothing – yours and his – and get rid of anything you don’t wear, want, or doesn’t fit. Go into your new home with only the necessities. Part of my problem now is clutter – things I should get rid of but can’t bear to part with. If you get rid of as much as possible now, it will make for a nice clean slate. Best wishes!

16. Posted by Bibliovore - 03/20/2011

    I love these suggestions. My partner and I never had a single concrete discussion about all this; we’ve sort of worked things out as we’ve gone along, which has mostly worked for us but has caused or prolonged some issues, too. We’ll talk about some of these.

    For us it’s been important to include the irregular and non-cleaning chores in the balance, too. It’s usually he who mows the lawn, and he maintains our computers/network/mailserver, and generally does (or at least initiates/coordinates) any larger repair work. I handle most of the shopping, from groceries to med refills to new linens, and we both do occasional large projects like cleaning the garage. I feel he does more of the irregular work than I do, so I’m happy doing more of the regular things.

    While not necessarily an uncluttering discussion, also work out how to handle food. How much will you keep on hand, and how often will food-storage areas be cleaned? How often will you eat out, and if you keep separate finances, who pays when for restaurants and for groceries? When you eat at home, who will cook when, and who clean up afterwards? What about preparing meals to bring to work/school? And does something go on the shopping list when a few portions remain, or when it’s empty?

17. Posted by Vlad - 03/20/2011

    I’m going through a similar thing right now moving into a 1 bedroom apartment with my girlfriend of 3 years. There are a number of things we do differently. She tends to clutter things up and I’m the one who has to go in and unclutter the room.

    I think making a plan is the best solution to a peaceful and clean space. There needs to be a schedule of who cleans what, this way if both people are part of the cleaning and uncluttered process there is less of a chance that space would get cluttered in the future.

18. Posted by Karen Newbie - 03/21/2011

    Married 21 years. We dated for a year, lived together for 6 months, then were married. Before “I do” we split things pretty easily. The “I cook, you clean” rule was firmly in place. Bill paying, tidying up, food shopping, and other mutual tasks were shared responsibilities. Marriage didn’t change this arrangement; the arrival of children and the change to a stay-at-home-to-raise-the-kids did. I made it clear I was staying home to be with the kids, not to become the full-time housekeeper, so we hired a cleaning person to come every 2 weeks to do the tasks neither of us wanted to or had time to do (toilets, bathrooms, floors, etc.). Still have that arrangement, but admittedly the “I cook, you clean” rule went out the window years ago. The important thing to realize is that chores/responsibilities will change as the couple’s needs change, and the best way to manage that is to communicate and not assume anything.

19. Posted by Deb - 03/22/2011

    You’ve an upcoming wedding, have a think about putting ‘Time with a professional organiser’ on your list of suggested presents. I know a number of people who prefer not to buy ‘stuff’ gifts, and would jump at the chance to get you a present they know you would gain benefit from.

    Also have a think about setting up some ongoing deadlines. My sister has a cleaner in once a fortnight. Before the cleaner comes, the house has to be tidy, so the cleaning can be done effectively. That means she HAS to clear the house of clutter at least every fortnight. Another friend schedules a dinner party about once a month, with similar results.

20. Posted by Debbie M - 03/28/2011

    Actually, that first topic is pretty sexy. One way to do it is to talk about which rooms you want in your house (based on purpose) and which rooms you actually have that will fulfill that purpose. For example at my house, there’s:

    kitchen – kitchen, library of cookbooks, party room
    breakfast nook – dining room, board gaming room, party room, workshop (for photography and other things that a big table are good for)
    living room – library, music practice room, dance hall, gym, party room
    study – living room, music listening room, movie watching room, guest room
    bedroom – bedroom, dressing room
    other bedroom – office, workshop, library
    front yard – garden, orchard (peaches and walnuts), parking (in the driveway)
    back yard – garden, tomato garden, carpentry workshop

    You can see we have several party rooms and workshops but only one TV room.

    Also, like Java Monster implied, people have assumptions about what married people do, and sometimes these don’t get talked about because it seems obvious that everyone agrees. So you could talk about how things are done by your parents or other couples and what you like and dislike about that, and be prepared for surprises no matter how much you talk ahead of time.

    xarcady is right about definitions, too! I think my boyfriend’s definition of “take out the trash” is to get the kitchen trash to the curb in the nick of time to get picked up, then put a new trashbag in the kitchen can at his convenience. My definition is to empty all the trash cans in the house (even ones that aren’t anywhere near overflowing); then immediately either add new bags to the cans or, if you’re not using bags, rinse them out; bring the trash out to the curb in time; bring the trash can back from the curb the same day; and, if the big trash can is at all smelly, rinse it out.

    One more hint – I’ve heard you can tell a lot about someone’s cleanliness by looking at how they keep their cars. So if you each have your own cars that you don’t share much with your messy roommates, that might give you some idea of how you would really be (which doesn’t mean that together you couldn’t be even better).

21. Posted by heather - 04/05/2011

    I wish you luck with everything…. a word of warning: i’ve had several roommates with whom i’ve had the “chores talk” and each and every one of them failed on their promises. i was always left to do the majority of the cleaning, as it seemed i was the only one who appreciated living in a clean home. if that is you, watch out.

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