Comments on: More mindful, less clutter

By: Mindfulness A-Z Link Directory « My Spiritual Journey

Mindfulness A-Z Link Directory « My Spiritual Journey — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:57:20 +0000

[...] More Mindful, Less Clutter [...]

By: Mindfulness Meditation A-Z Link Directory

Mindfulness Meditation A-Z Link Directory — Tue, 04 May 2010 15:22:47 +0000

[...] More Mindful, Less Clutter [...]

By: Michael Arnoldus

Michael Arnoldus — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:02:05 +0000

@TanyaZ

Not boring. Great fun. Let’s do this again someday

By: TanyaZ

TanyaZ — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:42:25 +0000

Michael, actually, I did not think you wanted to persuade me to think highly of the “in the moment” concept. I was trying to build on your thinking of the concept by using an example. Also, as you correctly pointed out, this discussion only strengthened my opinion by validating my concerns about unresolved conflics of the concept. I am not sure if this is boring, but I had fun going over my initial reaction (something’s amiss) and teasing out what exactly was turning me off.

Best wishes to you too!

By: Michael Arnoldus

Michael Arnoldus — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:43:41 +0000

Dear Tanya – for I assume that is your name.

I may have sounded like wanted to persuade you to like or think highly of the whole “present/moment/now” thing. I have no such intention. Actually what it has taught me (and that is not in the slightest an attempt to tell you anything about you) is that we all do what we need to do. Thinking about the future, the past, the now as each of chose to do. And conceptual discussions like these often end up in exchanges about defending each of our worldviews and that really isn’t very interesting. For me there’s no connection about “being in the moment” and forgetting computers – or not.

And thinking has – as you perfectly correctly point out – a lot of indispensable qualities without which we wouldn’t be able to survive.

So I bow to survival, to thinking (past, present and future) thoughts and being the most effective you can be.

The absolute best wishes to you

Michael

By: TanyaZ

TanyaZ — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:54:41 +0000

Let me add that while you may want to be “in the present”, to be effective, you still must think about the future to actually be effective. I did not forget the computer because I was not “being present”, I was in the present alright! I forgot it because I was not thinking about the near future – what the heck I am going to work on once I arrive to work. Thus a conflict – you can’t make the best decisions in the present without thinking about consequencies of your present decisions in the future, and to understand the consequencies of your present deicisions, you must review you past to find cause-effect patterns. Therefore, you must think about the past, present, and the future to make a good decision and be effective. So, that’s why I don’t think very highly about the whole “in the present/moment/now” thing.

By: Michael Arnoldus

Michael Arnoldus — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:35:16 +0000

The problem with the entire “in the moment” thing, is we discuss it as a concept – and as TanyaZ has pointed out, for the analytical mind this concept doesn’t make very much sense. To begin with, who in the whole wide world is not living in the now?

If I should try to make some sense of the _concept_ of “living in the now” or “being in the moment” it would be a reminder of the realization that the neither the future nor the past “exist” in a certain sense. The past is something we remember and this exist due to (and with the influence of) our memory and the future haven’t happened yet. Our analytic mind (well, mine at least) has a tendency to produce thoughts that’s primarily about the past or the future and these thoughts can in some sense take us away from the place we’re actually living – now. When that happens we might miss what’s really going on in our life, because the mind is constantly “taking us away” with thoughts. Often these thoughts are stressful but sometimes they’re nice – daydreaming etc. No matter if they’re stressful or nice these thoughts tend to remove us from simply experiencing what’s happening right now.

A problem with the concept of being “in the moment” is of course that “in the moment” points to a direct experience of what’s going on without interference of the analytical mind in the form of thoughts – and a concept is something that exist in the analytical mind. And it isn’t really fair to ask the analytical mind to grasp life without the analytical mind

Hence the Zen expression “fingers pointing at the moon”. Words and concepts are not the “the real thing”, but simply pointers to the real thing. Like fingers pointing at the moon isn’t actually the moon.

By: Thebe

Thebe — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:20:26 +0000

I have to agree that the “in the moment” thing does not always apply. I consider zoning out while taking public transit a survival technique here in San Francisco, as long as I don’t miss my stop. And I don’t see anything wrong with thinking about laundry or a phone call while eating a sandwich. Sometimes a slice of tomato is just a slice of tomato and trying to do everything “mindfully” sounds exhausting.

By: TanyaZ

TanyaZ — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:44:43 +0000

Tom, of course, I did everything wrong. I should not have been in the dressing up moment when I was getting ready, I should have been in “what else did I forget, what else did I forget” moment, right? No doubt, I would have rememebered about the computer if I were in “what else did I forget” nervous freak state of mind the whole morning. Just highlighting that the “present” solution is not that different from what people usually do, and it is not generally called being “in the moment”

I am not fighting with it. I am exactly following your advice – this whoel “in the moment” thing is clutter, it is not for me, and my life is better without it.

By: Take Note

Take Note — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000

[...] More Mindful, Less Clutter ~ @ Unclutterer [...]

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:41:58 +0000

TanyaZ:
it looks like you feel the urge to undermine the concept of mindfulness. Did you forget to take your computer with you? Well, an obvious answer is at hand – your mind wandered off when you should have been concentrating on preparation for work. To me it seems as if you are trying to implement all kinds of routines and autopilots, which is OK, as long as you are enjoying and present with what you are doing. The downside of autopilot routines is that they tend to trigger daydreaming. With daydreaming, an autopilot is only partially effective. Therefore I think that you weren’t present 100% that morning you forgot your PC, you just put a label “being present” on what it was not. Being present creates a lot more space and you are automatically doing what you should be.

At least that’s how I understand it and how it works for me.

If you disagree with me, at least please consider the following: If you feel you need to figure the whole thing out – just stop fighting with it. It will open a vast amount of space. It’s a great way to start being mindful.

By: TanyaZ

TanyaZ — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:27 +0000

That’s what I find so puzzling (and annoying, to an anlytical person) about this whole in the moment thing – everybody has their own defintion, and often they directly contradict. Some say that “being in the moment” is about not thinking about future or past, savoring the moment. Some think it is about, rouhgly put, being tuned in, not forgetting stuff. So, I was “in the moment” yesterday morning, and I put together a great outfit. I was so “in the moment”, I did not realize until I entered my office that I left my work computer at home. Should I have been worried about not forgetting stuff, or should I have been “in the moment” savoring my morning routine?

That’s why I think the whole concept is amiss. There are efficient routines that help us get through the day. For example, as loopy and autopiloted as I am before 10 am, I have not forgot my work ID even once in the last 5 years – that’s why I know I can work out a routing for not forgetting anything. And then there is the whole concentration/focusing on one task thing. Not being distracted and not multitasking. And then there is the enjoying and not worrying part. I am really good at the later, that’s why I am so forgetfull Those are three different things.

So, basically, I think it is a poorly thought out “in the moment” fad. In the present today, in the past tomorrow. It does attract its fair share of outright crazies, though (see the octomom quote), which makes it even more annoying.

By: The curious yogi

The curious yogi — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:47:29 +0000

When I’m eating a sandwich and am thinking about doing laundry or calling someone I tell my self, “Eat the sandwich, eat the sandwich. Taste the tomato, savour the cheese, taste the mayo, smell the mustard, look at the bread…”
As yogi Eric Schiffmann likes to say “Enjoy what you’re doing while you’re doing it.” It works for me every time.
About the micro-sleeps, those sound like mini-strokes. I’m not a doctor or anything but I’ve heard that sometimes before one experiences a major stroke, he or she will experience many minor strokes. Anyone else know more about this?

By: Lilliane P

Lilliane P — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:29:39 +0000

“What if the actual search for mindfulness and being in the now is the thing that takes us away from the present moment. How many people searching for “the now” is actually spending most of their time feeling frustrated about not being enough “in the now”.” (Michael’s post)

There’s an old Buddhist saying about the fish in the lake searching for water.

By: Claycat

Claycat — Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:54:51 +0000

Actually, the ideas of being mindful and living in the present knocked me over when I started paying attention. I had spent so much time either in the past or the future that I needed the 2×4 of mindfulness of the present! I was always wishing for what had been and wishing for what could be instead of doing what I could in the present to improve my situation.

I am finally there, in the present, after years! I am selling items on eBay, something I had put off for months. In doing that, I discovered ACEOs, something I should have noticed long ago but did not. I’ve been putting off my art for some time in the future. However, I’m a fairly decent artist, and my eyes are not getting any younger. So, I am encouraged to start making and selling ACEOs on eBay. I am a fourth of the way to my new goals, because of my decision to live in and be mindful of the present.

I know people scoff at the idea of being mindful in the present, but it has probably salvaged the rest of my life. It was the wake-up call I needed.