Comments on: The reasons for lists

By: Leslie

Leslie — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:48:16 +0000

I think his theory is kind of beautiful.

Of course I make lists for practical purposes – what homework I have to do this weekend, what groceries need to be purchased, what I need to do at work this week, etc. But I also make lists of things I love, books I’ve read, things that make me angry, things that make me laugh.

I also work in a library, where my job is to add music to the catalog. The mission of a library is to collect, preserve, and provide access to the sum of human knowledge. What is a card catalog (or these days, an OPAC – Online Public Access Catalog) but a gigantic list?

I think lists contain so much more than the mundane. One of my favorite websites is listography.com. You can get so much insight into people and learn so many beautiful things about them by browsing the kind of lists they make. And the listing of all those hopes and dreams and accomplishments provides a kind of immortality.

Yes, we think about death. We know we are finite. I think most of us hope our accomplishments are not.

By: From the Depths of My Google Reader « Gouda Buddha Books

From the Depths of My Google Reader « Gouda Buddha Books — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:24:24 +0000

[...] Umberto Eco justifies my endless list-making. [...]

By: Joie

Joie — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:10:24 +0000

Love it, love it, love it.

Also FYI, there is nothing “faux” about Umberto Eco. Unfortunately, many hold distrust toward intellectuals in general (witness this country’s current and recent political discourse). Sorry we made you think too hard there for a minute!

Thank you for posting this, Unclutterer.

By: Ruth

Ruth — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:03:02 +0000

Thank you for highlighting this article. It was very interesting.

By: lola meyer

lola meyer — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:53:11 +0000

Eco says, “It’s a way of escaping thoughts about death. We like lists because we don’t want to die.”
In the previous paragraph he talks of the lists we make and includes ‘the will’. I’m wondering how you can make a will and not think about death? Seems like his philosophy has a direct contradiction.
To make a generalization that indicates ‘list making’ equals ‘death phobia’ seems rather narrow. It would be like saying all people hoard stuff for exactly the same reason. As we all know, there are different motives for behavior.

By: Krys

Krys — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:55:33 +0000

I actually get it. I think that he’s right. He’s definitely being esoteric, but putting things “down on paper” makes them real, and in a sense, permanent. We all fear our own impermanence to a degree, and we tend to do things that will make our presence on this planet somehow permanent.

I didn’t expect to get so “deep” so early in the morning today! Thanks, Erin, for making me use my brain today!

By: Kalle

Kalle — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:23:37 +0000

Eco is a great mind who has the ability to see beyond the most obvious meanings in many things, apparently including the use of lists. I find his interpretation to be interesting and well presented, but it is obvious not everyone who reads Unclutterer share his inclination to philosophical thinking.

By: Sherry Banarsi

Sherry Banarsi — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:53:10 +0000

Lists are just a way to organize and enumerate upon the chaotic amount of information we face everyday. Why can’t we just appreciate things for what they are and why must we look too deep into everything? It is a form of mental clutter to dwell on the meaning of something as utilitarian as lists . Admittedly I have a disdain of faux-intellectuals and Eco comes very close to that impression.

By: Red Coyote Hunter

Red Coyote Hunter — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:07:35 +0000

Lists work.

Nobody ever thought they would would preclude mortality. Do this, that. Just do it.

Too many words;

Goodbye

By: Laetitia in Australia

Laetitia in Australia — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:19:15 +0000

Then there’s the “bucket list” – that list of things to do / see before one “kicks the bucket”.

By: April

April — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:22:10 +0000

Ellen, love your comment. Hee hee! Thanks to everyone who joins in the discussion here on unclutterer.com (and to Erin for making it happen). It’s so much fun to hear everyone’s perspective on these different topics.

By: Deb Lee

Deb Lee — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:19:18 +0000

I love making lists! I love crossing things off my lists. Once in a while, I put something on my list that I’ve already done just so I can cross it off. Yes, a little odd, but I love the feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment I get from crossing it off. I’m not sure I like lists because I don’t want to die. I like lists because they help me remember what I need to do before my day dies! Plus there’s that satisfaction thing…

Ironically, I did a news piece recently on “What Your To Do List Says About Your Personality.” I took a look at the lists of architects, HR reps, and interior designers and “read” what I thought it said about them. It was a different way of looking at these particular pieces of paper, so I guess I should give Mr. Eco a little wiggle room, too. It’s all about about interpretation, yes?

By: Amy

Amy — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:10:08 +0000

In my opinion he is 100% spot on. I went on to read the entire article and to look up what I could about his exhibition. He’s right. While he is being more philosophical and less scientific with the quote that we like lists because we do not want to die, when you read the full article it is easy to see why he might say that.

He writes that we create lists to help us understand the infinite, whether that be the infinite number of details in our head or to come up with a definition of a platypus, as he talks about in the article. We have an idea that what we have in our head is infinite (but rudely disturbed when we die) and we’d better jot it down or otherwise chronicle those thoughts before they are forgotten. Lists conveniently allow others to continue on with our legacy or mission when we die, in that way our ideas to not die with us.

He also uses the idea of a list in a broad way, as a way to chronicle details, and in that way a painting is a form of list. I do not see it a stretch at all. Is he wrong because we do not currently think of lists in that way?

Imagine if you lived your entire life and did absolutely nothing. You did not accomplish anything. Wouldn’t most people wished they had crossed a few things off their “list” first? What is at the root of creating a list? Motivation (even if you are making the list post-completion). What is motivation if not the desire to live? If one has the desire to live than they are trying for the opposite of death. With out the human basic motivation death would not be feared. It is an explanation in reverse.

And he does have many examples to support his theory in the full article. And frankly, what is research but observations and ideas chronicled and formed into understandable data = Lists.

But I work with up to 40 scholars per year for a living…

By: megan

megan — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:22:16 +0000

While I do need a true list (i.e. grocery list) every now and again, I find that making lists is typically a soothing mental exercise for me…. Taking that which seems monumental and boiling it down to a few points. I make “life lists” a lot, and it helps to keep me from, well, freaking out. I like to see the finite. But I don’t actually need the physical list in the end, I rarely USE them. I just need to MAKE them.

By: Anita

Anita — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:21:17 +0000

Wow, how small minded have we become that we can’t look beyond the immediately prctical? People, of course we make lists to keep track of stuff. A 3-year old could tell you that. A personal organizer might tell you why it’s important to keep track of stuff; an efficiency expert might tell you how much you can improve your productivity by properly keeping track of stuff.

He’s not a personal organizer, nor an efficiency expert. He’s a philosopher. OF COURSE his comments will be sought from a philosophical standpoint, NOT a practical one. Saying that his comments aren’t practical enough is sort of like saying that a block of concrete isn’t soft enough to use as a pillow. Come on now, let’s try to get our blinders off for a minute…