Unclutterer

1. Posted by Craig - 10/02/2009

   As someone who comes from that industry the advice here is spot on. It is more than normal for IT works to keep certain sections of their working lives in chaos and other sections in perfect rigid order.

   I know people who live in the most unbelievable clutter, and yet when they write code it is a wonder to behold in its uniformity.

   It is also worth remembering that sometimes the clutter free lifestyle is not always the most efficient. If everything is out on my desk then I can see it all and use it all, I don’t have to go hunting.

   For example, in my quest for a less cluttered life I bought a toolbox for my computer repair tools. This is fine, it is neat, tidy and out of sight. This said, I have to go get it almost every other day to grab something out of it.

2. Posted by Another Deb - 10/02/2009

   Perhaps a folding screen to block the entire view?

3. Posted by Claire - 10/02/2009

   Something we’ve found incredibly useful is over-the-door clear plastic shoe racks. Our office has two doors (one is for the tiny closet). One shoe rack is on the back of each door. Because they’re clear, you can instantly see what you have. AND, hubby got out the label maker to clearly mark each shoe holder. Now, he doesn’t have to pull out one cable to see what type of end connector it has. The pockets are perfect for keeping small items together too. It’s been one of our more awesome ideas!

4. Posted by Jen C - 10/02/2009

   I was going to say exactly what Deb said. A folding screen can be very attractive and hide a multitude of sins.

5. Posted by L. - 10/02/2009

   Yes, don’t mess with the desk. If his mind works like mine, he may be an “out of sight, out of mind” type of person. If it’s not right in front of me I completely forget it exists. For less urgent tasks I try to transfer the need to “see it” to a list (to-dos, that sort of thing) but if it’s pressing or doesn’t translate well to a list, I need to make sure it’s visible to me. Clear plastic can help with that sort of thing but for a limited, work-related area like a desk–if it’s working for him, let him be.

6. Posted by Brandon Green - 10/02/2009

   Yeah, you don’t want to touch someone else’s junk.

7. Posted by Rue - 10/02/2009

   If the problem is that his mess bothers YOU and keeps you from feeling comfortable (which is what it sounds like) then you need to separate his workspace from wherever you spend time. So if his desk is in the living room, relocate it to the bedroom where you don’t have to look at it most of the time.

   I think you are better off leaving his desk as it is. I think it’s fair of you to ask him to clean it off when you’re having someone over, but other than that – let him work however best he works. If your “office” isn’t in a room where you can just shut the door, I think the others’ mention of a folding screen would help give the appearance of neatness (and when it starts bothering you, even if no one else is there, you can still put it up!).

   Erin’s right; you can’t force someone to be organized. Even if you went through and cleared out everything you considered junk and made it look great, if he’s a messy person by nature, the desk will junk up again.

   As far as all the spare and broken equipment – I think it would be fair of you to ask him to put it all into labeled boxes and store it somewhere (a closet, etc). That way he still has it, and if he needs something he knows where to find it. It might help cut down on what’s actually in or on his desk.

8. Posted by Gryphon - 10/02/2009

   This is an issue that has come up for me as well. Eventually a compromise was reached. Desk’s are their owner’s domain, period. The only rule is that dishes and food type items need to be cleaned off before the even come close to smelling. The floor up to about a half a foot away from the legs of the desk is fair game to cleaning efforts. Guests coming over is an agreed on trigger for a quick clean to get the biggest and worst of the clutter off, but it doesn’t have to be spotless. This seems to work pretty well, just try to be clear and fair when working out some kind of compromise.

9. Posted by Amanda - 10/02/2009

   I second – third – fourth? the screen idea. We’re finally in a house where my husband can have his own office. I have a sofa in there that I’ve asked that he keep clean (from pet hair), but otherwise, his office is his domain. Frankly, it’s a disgusting mess. So, I keep the door closed. He has a right to keep his workplace the way he sees fit, and I have a right to hide it.

10. Posted by Philly - 10/02/2009

    I agree with the idea of a folding screen, if you’ve got the space for it. But honestly, who are you going to have over to your place who’s going to care, or judge you, over a cluttered desk?

    Clear off the dining table for dinner guests, sure, but a desk is for working and should be in whatever condition the worker needs to be most effective.

11. Posted by Hayden Tompkins - 10/02/2009

    The problem (one that I had with my own husband) is that you can’t FIND anything on his desk. My husband had bills mixed in with programming notes in stacks on his desk. That makes me super uncomfortable and can be dangerous to your finances.

    When it comes to his hardware, we have a huge blue bin that we keep all of his wires, cables, routers, and random computer equipment in. So far he seems to be just fine with it. As for the paper, we’re still working on that but he knows that anything that isn’t personal has to be easily identifiable. Bills and account notices can’t just disappear into a paper hurricane on his desk.

12. Posted by Amy - 10/02/2009

    At least with the parts on his desk he has a built in mechinism for overload, vs, when it was cleaned off and in a drawer, that was his cue to replace the mess with more stuff.

    Can his desk be replaced with some type of armoire that has closing doors for when he’s not working?

13. Posted by Lori Paximadis - 10/02/2009

    I will admit it: this sounds a lot like my desk (but subsitute paperwork, books, and miscellaneous stuff for computer equipment) and my workbench (ditto beads, tools, metals, and other supplies). I’m sure it drives my neatnik husband crazy, but I am an out-of-site, out-of-mind person; if it’s not in my line of sight, it will be forgotten. There is a method to my madness, and I can find what I need to find 99% of the time. Some people, like me, just can’t work any other way. I am proud to be a piler.

    The folding screen sounds like a good option.

14. Posted by Jen - 10/02/2009

    I agree with Erin. I’m a bit of a neat freak, and clutter drives me insane. My boyfriend and I live in a 2 bedroom, 1000 square foot apt. Whenever I clean, I put my stuff away in its designated spot. I stack my boyfriend’s stuff in a neat pile and deposit it on his desk, where it will likely stay until the end of time, or our next move. I am worried that eventually the growing towers of stuff will topple and trap our pets (or me!) in the avalanche, but there’s not much I can do about it. His cat, however, is very ticked off that she can’t lay on his desk anymore, and has resorted to plopping her fat behind down on mine…usually right on my laptop when I’m trying to write…

15. Posted by Anna-Marie - 10/02/2009

    As a wife to an IT professional/creative writer, we have this problem, too. Our favorite way to organize the mass chaos of cords and tools has been pegboard that you would use in a garage for tool org. We have converted a wardrobe into a desk that slides out and pegboard on the inside of the doors, with hooks for him to org. If all else fails, it neatly closes up, leaving his mess inside and clean on the outside. However, he likes it because he can open it again to his mess.

16. Posted by Anita - 10/02/2009

    I completely agree — let his mess be! As long as it’s contained to his desk, and he’s good about keeping the rest of the house clean, why bother?

    My dad is a neat freak and an electronics engineer. Everything he owns is in the strictest order you can imagine, including his computer setup for which he’s built special housing and cable management devices. His numerous toolboxes are all spotless and neat. Yet when he’s working on a project, he needs to see everything all the time, including all his tools, so the entire room becomes an unholy mess in which you are afraid to walk, for fear of something jumping up and biting you. Once he’s done, he’ll clean up and life will return to normal again. The solution my parents have come to is that he’s taken over the basement of their house, which is his domain to use as he sees fit.

    Sometimes, just giving people their own stress-free, nag-free space is all it takes to make you both comfortable.

17. Posted by Soochi - 10/02/2009

    Good answers. And, to me, it’s insulting to try and remake someone. For me, that would be a relationship breaker if someone did that to me.

18. Posted by Lose That Girl - 10/02/2009

    My husband has a somewhat messy work area. It drives the neat nut in me crazy but I just have to let it go.

19. Posted by Dawn F. - 10/02/2009

    I think if 2 people are sharing a space then there needs to be a compromise on both sides. I think the boyfriend should agree to store most of his IT things in some sort of a storage unit/cabinet/armoire that is functional and efficient for him and the girlfriend should agree that he can keep his stuff.

    No compromising now might mean no compromising in the future…. just sayin’….

20. Posted by Beth Frede - 10/02/2009

    I agree that the messy desk is the messy desk owner’s domain…. As long as it isn’t in the middle of the common living space, out in the open, or in a shared office. If it IS the focal point of the main living area, or part of a joint office space, clearly concessions on both sides need to be made for harmony’s sake. However, if the cluttered work space can be hidden behind a closed door, I think the more organized person should restrain him- or herself, and ignore the mess.

21. Posted by Angie - 10/03/2009

    Leave him alone. It’s his desk. Stand in the part of the apartment where you get offended by his mess and think guests will be offended too, then figure out where the screen will go. Attach it to a wall, if you can, with a complete piano hinge or two — dont forget the lag bolts to hold it securely — and design a clasp to hold the folded screen to the wall.

    When guests come over, or you can’t deal with the visual clutter any longer, unhook the screen and slide it across the floor to block the view.

    You have decoration rights over the screen.

    My girlfriend ruined her marriage for years nagging, screaming at her husband about his two-foot piles of paper and whatnot on his desk. Her messiness was in her head by not understanding the spiritual law of non-interference, always dictating how he should live and be; his interior was calm and gentle, and his mess was external.

22. Posted by Angie - 10/03/2009

    Soon to arrive in the USA: http://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk. Get the clear ones you can see through. They stack, so you can buy the size that will look good on your desk. Or your floor nearby.

    I bought the small ones for stuff I usually leave all over my desk and they are great.

23. Posted by Elaine Shannon - 10/03/2009

    It is better to be happy than to be right.
    Your version of right is a neat desk and his version is messy…so who is right. I agree the relationship comes first. I also love the screen idea.We have one in our home, its portability hides a multitude of sins…oh that was my version of right slipping out…sorry

24. Posted by Scanning documents to reduce paper clutter - 10/03/2009

    [...] to http://www.unclutterer.com for this [...]

25. Posted by trillie - 10/03/2009

    I read somewhere that people are either “hiders” or “seekers”.

    Everyone should have their own area where they can work the way they want, and the way it works best for them. Just as he probably finds it stressful that she keeps tidying up, she finds it stressful that he doesn’t… My boyfriend and I are the same way (I need mostly clear surfaces and a place for everything, he wants everything visible and within reach), and as we are thinking about moving in together eventually, it becomes clearer to me that we’ll probably need three rooms: Our room, his room and my room The latter two with doors

26. Posted by Melinda - 10/03/2009

    If it’s his desk and his work, then you need to leave it alone. He probably needs it to be as is so that he can have continuity, when he sits down everything is where it was last time and he can pick up where he left off. There is nothing attractive about computer parts, cables etc. But it’s his job.

27. Posted by Angie - 10/03/2009

    I agree with Elaine Shannon: It is better to create harmony than it is to be right.

    Sometimes that’s a hard task.

28. Posted by Laura - 10/05/2009

    As long as his mess is contained, you might be best off letting it be. But if he is like my husband, you may find his stuff migrating all over the house. This is something that drives me crazy! He has computer hardware and wires in just about every room in the house. Wish *I* had the answer

29. Posted by Mike - 10/05/2009

    Sort of a tangential take on this issue: Everyone needs some location in the home where they can have projects in an “open/unfinished” state. For me, it’s my desk, because our garage is too small. For my wife, it’s her desk as well, and hers is much sloppier than mine — but that’s her open workspace. Company comes over? We close the door to the den. Or not; honestly, even in disarray it just looks like a den. Nobody seems to expect museum-clean when they look at it.

    You need this open space because the plain fact is that some projects don’t parse in a single weekend. For example, I am in the process of selling off a collection of trading cards. I’d love to have done it in a weekend, but it can’t be done. It takes weeks (months, really) to get it sorted out right, the key cards posted on ebay, auctions completed, shipping done, the remainders prepped for bulk sale, auction THAT, ship THAT, finally done and wrap up supplies and sundries. And the whole while that project is underway, it looks like a tornado blew through the den. There’s no avoiding it except to not engage in the project — and the project IS worth engaging in! (It both declutters and earns money.)

    It’s a bit of a different issue when open projects migrate elsewhere, though. Each of us has engaged in projects that left our living room table temporarily unusable, for example, and caused some friction when we had to quick-clear the stuff aside to have company over, then put it back to start again on the project, etc. As long as it does get done and eventually cleared, there’s no harm in it. I have a project right now that’s been sitting for a few months on the table, and it bothers the heck out of me that it isn’t done yet. Fortunately, it’s at about 90%, and I have some time off coming. I feel good about the idea of wrapping that up (and collecting the income it’s going to produce) and returning the living room table to CLEAN.

30. Posted by RoseCampion - 10/06/2009

    I’m going to go against the prevailing tide and say that, assuming this desk is out in an open area, she has a right to ask that it be kept clean, especially in a small apartment.

    If it’s an office that can be closed off, that’s one thing. Shut the door and out of sight, out of mind. But a great big eyesore of a desk in the middle of the dining room or whatever, that will make her angry any time she looks at it. It will be a strain on the relationship whether she gets the anger out by nagging about it or whether she just suppresses it.

    If a screen works, then that might be a good solution, but mostly those have a real feeling of impermanence. I wouldn’t be happy with a mess behind a screen in my place.

    My husband is naturally much messier than I am and apt to keep clutter. My husband isn’t in IT, but he is an amateur magician and he has all kinds of props, card decks, assorted clutter that he actually does use.

    When we lived in a house, he had his own office and I just shut the door and ignored it. But we decided to move to a 1 bedroom condo to save money. I agreed to do it under the condition that he couldn’t keep any of his messes out in the open. He has a closet that can be as messy as he wants. He has a cabinet that, so long as it can be closed, it can hold as much clutter and junk as he wants, in any order. He has two big drawers in a shared desk, also as cluttered as he wants. If any of these spaces get filled up and then stuff starts accumulating outside them, well, it’s time for him to unclutter the drawers/cabinet.

    Maybe you think I’m mean for forcing him to keep his clutter boxed up. Maybe I am, but it really does keep the peace in the household in a way that me letting him take over a corner of one of the few rooms we have and spreading his junk to be an eyesore and me just ignoring it wouldn’t.

    I don’t think that people need to keep their projects out in the open when they’re not working on them. Not if you’re dealing with as little space as we have. If necessary, have a project file/box and tidy everything up when you’re done working for the day and then get it out when you’re working again. I sew/quilt and I clean up and put my sewing machine away every time I work. It’s just messy to do otherwise.

31. Posted by Amber - 10/06/2009

    Has anyone mentioned a roll top desk yet? It sounds like one of those would be ideal.

32. Posted by Steve - 10/07/2009

    As Erin said, it’s his desk, his space, everyone has their own way of doing things. How would you feel if he suggested that your stuff was tooo tidy and wanted to mess it all up? I agree with Amber, something like a roll top desk where you can put a lid over the mess would be ideal – it serves your purpose of hiding the mess away whilst serving his purpose of keeping the desk as he wants it. No arguments, it’s win/win! I have also seen one set of friends who had a custom lid made for a table. It sits over the main surface hiding all the junk when company comes round. Best of luck for what ever solution you come to!

33. Posted by Montse - 10/12/2009

    Hello all,

    Many thanks to unclutterer.com for publishing my email and for their advices. Lot of thanks also to all of you for giving your opinion and sincere thoughts on the matter.

    I wrote that letter to unclutterer.com looking for solutions and you have provided me with a philosophical view: a letting be attitude. It has opened my mind to let him go and to respect his space, as long as he does not conquer my space with his clutter. He can have his desk cluttered with things (or organized in his way), but whenever his things widespread from his desk to my desk (which has happened quite frequently in the last months), then it’s time to purge.

    WE have also reached an agreement. Time for purging has also been established when we know guests are coming.

    We cannot close the door or put a screen to hide a room which is central to our existence and where many of our guests come to see pictures on the computer, etc.

    So, he agrees to clean his desk more often as he has recognized that many of the things he has are useless.

    Talking is the key to understanding each other’s needs.
    I’ve understood his ways and he has understood mine. We have to cope to each others way of living, and whenever a thing dislikes the other, then we will try to eliminate/control/improve it.

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